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The 2012 US presdential election

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EricDVH Since: Jan, 2001
#126: Mar 30th 2011 at 10:48:47 PM

Libertarians are more than a party, they're a plague of absurd infantile isolationism and selfishness that extends to legitimate-looking groups like the Cato Institute, infecting the brains of the unaware in ways convenient to the wealthy.

When it really metastasizes, you end up with Ayn Rand.

Eric,

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#128: Mar 30th 2011 at 11:06:39 PM

[up][up] So we'r bad because we want small limited government that doesn't become a totalitarian state aznd we want to stay out of the business of other countries?

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#129: Mar 30th 2011 at 11:17:50 PM

I think the Libertarian message is often muddled and made to look badly by all the stoners who describe themselves as Libertarians, but only want to discuss legalization. I end up just disagreeing with them despite being in favor of legalization because I despise people who hold recreational drugs in such a high regard that they are more important than actual important issues.

Or the crazy survivalists who think the second amendment is "The right to buy nuclear bombs, RPG's, and high caliber heavy machineguns."

Apart from that, I'm rather supportive of most Libertarian ideas.

edited 30th Mar '11 11:18:28 PM by Barkey

PhilippeO Since: Oct, 2010
#130: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:10:31 AM

[up][up]

my problem with Libertarian is :

1 > Europe had big gov, they succesfully managed to avoid become totalitarian state 2 > they had no plan at all to deal with inequality, without gov inequality will grow

Back to 2012, i think republican had no hope, incumbent almost always win.

Exploder Pretending to be human Since: Jan, 2001
Pretending to be human
#131: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:22:40 AM

I understand the desire for third parties, although frankly I'm not impressed with any of the third parties available right now in the US, except maybe the New Whig Party.

inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#132: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:34:04 AM

[up][up]What about massive police surveillance in the UK?

[up]They're cool.

edited 31st Mar '11 5:36:06 AM by inane242

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#133: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:35:19 AM

Mostly owned by private businesses, and most of the public ones don't work.

We have a surveilance culture, but we are also blessed with a staggeringly incompetent means by which to maintain it.

inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#134: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:36:30 AM

Never heard it put that way. [lol]

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#135: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:41:06 AM

Its true though. For all the people talking in dread of how its "demolishing civil liberties" you have to realise that staggering incompetence keeps it from being actually effective or even worrying.

inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#136: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:43:58 AM

This sort of incompetence is why I'd rather not have the government run things. Private business has the incentive to be as effective as possible for as little money as possible.

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#137: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:45:54 AM

Bullshit.

Look at National rail and tell me that its efficiently run, or any bus company. Privitising everything without care and attention is just as bad (if not slightly worse) than publicly taking over things.

Ratix from Someplace, Maryland Since: Sep, 2010
#138: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:50:21 AM

Indeed, one can't speak of things being done to as much an extreme "as possible" when economics come into play. It is always about opportunity costs. A given company will put forth expenses to gain an advantage, which may indeed involve improving efficiency, but there comes a point where higher efficiencies are out of their price range, or won't give greater benefits than the cost. So they don't optimize their legacy systems because it costs more to replace them than the lost profits from running them. New technologies are adopted only when the costs become manageable, and risk is seen as low.

inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#139: Mar 31st 2011 at 5:50:43 AM

Yes, regulation is essential.

Also: National Rail? Try Amtrak. It's, as Umberto Eco put it, like a cross between what the world might be like after a nuclear Holocaust and The Night Of The Living Dead.

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#140: Mar 31st 2011 at 6:05:19 AM

Anyone else think Scott Brown might run for president? I thought him putting out his book was a first step.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#141: Mar 31st 2011 at 6:16:42 AM

(*Reads up quick*) Hmm, to early to tell IMO. That said I like most of his positions. Civil unions being supported by a republican president would be a step in the right direction.

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
Kaliayev from Dorset Since: Apr, 2010
#142: Mar 31st 2011 at 6:34:35 AM

Last I saw, Huckabee was leading in the polls. Which was somewhat surprising.

I think the most interesting thing about the 2012 GOP selection process is how they are going to manage the difference between how the GOP views candidates and how the rest of the country does. For instance, though her currency is losing value now, for a while Sarah Palin was highly popular within the GOP, but deeply polarizing on a national level. If they cannot overcome that, then they're stuck in the position of letting the Democrats commit massive blunders and alienating their own base to achieve victory.

Which will happen. Eventually. Just probably not in 2012.

Let this be a lesson. Circular Firing Squads and ideological cleansing: not even once.

Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#143: Mar 31st 2011 at 7:01:34 AM

Part of the problem with Amtrak is that its stuck in a vicious circle: since its service is bad, people don't use it often; since people don't use it often, politicians say that it shouldn't be invested in; since politicians won't invest in it, its service is bad.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#144: Mar 31st 2011 at 7:11:45 AM

^ Well considering the rail system for the last nearly 50 years has been ever increasingly dominated by the vastly more efficient freight lines and the fact that Amtrak is consistently over budget no matter how much we invest, the circle is inescapable short of terminating the whole thing outright and starting again from scratch.

You can fix poor service on the cheap. That's doable. Saying it's a matter of investment and funding merely displaces the actual problem and turns it into a political issue.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#145: Mar 31st 2011 at 9:00:35 AM

problem is one leads to the other I don't trust anyone with power over me. [edited for legibility]
So you're an anarchist? Also: delicious, delicious slippery slope. Checks and balances: keeping The Man down for 200 years.

On the two-party system: it's not going away without a complete overhaul of how the vote works, and that's probably not going anywhere because there's neither public outcry nor political incentive to change it.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#146: Mar 31st 2011 at 9:35:20 AM

I think it's possible for a third party to start to become mainstream and popular. People at large have to be dissatisfied enough with the two we have now, and relatively positive about the third party, and it has to be able to get out there and get some publicity.

So if, for instance, the New Whigs stay true to their word.. It'll still be many years in the making. They might land a few Representative slots and some local positions in a few different states that are more accepting to their ideology, and this will buy them the support to be able to attain more. I think the Whigs have a great chance in some of the more moderately conservative states such as Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico. States that by and large are rather conservative, but also have a very libertarian set of values without a huge population of the religious zealots the GOP relies on for a base.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#147: Mar 31st 2011 at 10:03:07 AM

A third party can only become popular in the US by replacing one of the two current parties. That's not to say that a third party can't become mainstream, but that when it does, it ceases to be a "third party". It's happened before in American history where a third party rose to prominence; the result was that an established party died to make room for it. Three parties coexisting simultaneously is impossible in the current system of American politics.

edited 31st Mar '11 10:03:42 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#148: Mar 31st 2011 at 10:18:17 AM

checks and balances my ass we've been abusing things like "informal ammendments" and "Executive orders" for years we've had laws passed that are blatently illegal laws because people don't know better.. I say Republicans get replaced with Libertarians and Democrats with Greens.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#150: Mar 31st 2011 at 10:29:08 AM

I have many of those Tomu mostly to dowi th semantics. Government, vampires, zombies, history, etc.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?

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