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neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#1: Mar 25th 2011 at 7:26:47 PM

The discussion for this YKTTW has raised the question as to whether or not something that is simply an opposite of another trope can count as a trope on its own merits. Can it?

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#2: Mar 25th 2011 at 8:03:39 PM

Simply because it's the opposite of an existing trope? not on that grounds alone, no. But we have quite a few sets of contradictory tropes. The cats that "Cats are Mean" is a common device doesn't mean that "Cats are Nice" can't also be one, if you can find enough uses of it to indicate that it's used as a storytelling device. We even have an index for Opposite Tropes.

However, listing aversions for a trope that isn't so overwhelming used that it's noticeable when it isn't used, is frowned on. "Averted" doesn't simply mean "They didn't use this trope", it means "They didn't use this trope at all in a situation where it would normally be expected." So simply making a section on Cats Are Mean for aversions isn't a good way to handle it.

edited 25th Mar '11 8:13:04 PM by Madrugada

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#3: Mar 26th 2011 at 1:17:40 AM

Basically everything Mad said. A trope has to exist on its own merits and not just as the opposite or aversion of another trope. Certainly compare something like Limited Wardrobe and Unlimited Wardrobe, which sounds like mere opposites but actually details specific occurances that make them more than that.

The only real problem I see with that YKTTW is that it kind of feels like "This cat isn't a smug bastard, therefore he is a nice cat." and that is where it runs into the problem of opposite tropes. You can be a neutral or even good cat without being a Nice Cat. Garfield is not a nice cat, he is generally unpleasant to be around but with his nice or friendly moments.

edited 26th Mar '11 1:22:46 AM by KJMackley

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