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Mar 25th 2011 at 7:37:18 PM

You've seen these around. Pages where readers are addressed directly. Personally, I find them hard to read, but they can be excused as Self-Demonstrating Article with 4th-wall breaking. Deadpool and The Joker are two.

However, Doctor Doom and Thanos don't regularly break the 4th-wall outside of gags, but their pages are structured as such. These sticks out since not even She Hulk is done in the same manner, and she breaks the 4th-wall more often than they do. Some trope examples like them being Large Ham and Third-Person Person can be excused, but not the whole thing. It's like reading a page full of Natter. It bleeds over to the character page of Marvel vs Capcom 3 as well. I think these should be changed back.

edited 25th Mar '11 7:37:53 PM by PsychoPJ

Mar 25th 2011 at 8:45:47 PM

This thread seems familiar, did we already have a talk about this?

Mar 25th 2011 at 8:49:20 PM

Yeah, this is something that comes up a lot, I think.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Mar 25th 2011 at 8:59:13 PM

So far, though it's been for individual pages, rather than an overall policy/guideline discussion. That might not be a bad thing to have — the general discussion, I mean. First. Then see about formulating a guideline.

edited 25th Mar '11 8:59:26 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Mar 26th 2011 at 5:57:24 PM

Just for future reference, anyone got a link to the previous thread?

Mar 26th 2011 at 6:01:16 PM

I think it was just a TRS thread for one of the individual ones or something. I don't remember which one or when or anything.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
JackAlsworth Drop-Dead Cynical
Drop-Dead Cynical
Mar 26th 2011 at 6:38:25 PM

[up][up] There's this one; I think that covers most of it.

Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Mar 26th 2011 at 6:52:09 PM

about self-demonstrating articles in general, including first-person articles)

about specific pages, at least at first.

Those are the ones that are still available. I know that we had a long one about the Brian Blessed page, that ended with the decision to make two pages, one with the Self-demonstrating volume inflation coding and one without.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Mar 27th 2011 at 3:41:45 PM

Okay, so this is going to be a general discussion. Let me see if I got the main points down:

  • Self-demonstrating pages of characters who should:
    • have distinctive speech
    • 4th-wall breaking
    • first or third person
  • Full-page or limits to self-demonstrating pages (single paragraphs and/or trope examples)
  • Option to switch between variant and regular

Anything else?

The List:

edited 27th Mar '11 10:48:32 PM by PsychoPJ

DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
Mar 27th 2011 at 4:05:57 PM

I have to say, I think that Deadpool page is nearly inpenetrable to me.

I wish there was a regular version for it.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Mar 27th 2011 at 4:07:45 PM

I'm not sure a regular version of the Deadpool page would make much more sense. It's that kind of work.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
Mar 27th 2011 at 4:10:32 PM

Really. Hmm...

If you insist.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
LenisJates from TO, Canada
Mar 27th 2011 at 4:24:33 PM

[up]&[up][up] Deadpool's main page is fine. It's the pages that get confusing '~'. Specifically the CMOA page where they just give up on first person halfway down the page; somethings just don't sound like someone would say about themselves, even if it's Deadpool; and a bunch of the examples are just clips from Marvel Versus Capcom 3! /rant

edited 27th Mar '11 4:27:28 PM by LenisJates

BigT grimAuxiliatrix
grimAuxiliatrix
Mar 29th 2011 at 1:07:27 AM

I don't have a problem when the entire article is set up this way. I hate it when a certain example will start talking directly to the reader.

Everyone Has An Important Job To Do
Mar 29th 2011 at 1:29:31 PM

By the way, should be we put links in the pages so people would know? It does it automatically for tropes under repair, but we're not doing that yet.

thespacephantom magnets from Rokkenjima
magnets
Mar 29th 2011 at 4:49:51 PM

Maybe we should remake the existing pages in third person, and put the first person pages in Self Demonstrating Articles.

Without love, it cannot be seen.
Torquey Dreamworks
Dreamworks
Mar 30th 2011 at 7:04:38 PM

Lobo is also an example.

2xN 2xN from Boston
2xN
Mar 30th 2011 at 11:38:07 PM

Personally, I feel the "characters writing their own pages" is fun and interesting. It's like (or I guess it is) reading a first-person narrative while still having the informative feel a wiki should have. On I side note, I can't imagine the self-demonstration of these articles would by any harder to comprehend, unless the reader is so accustomed to reading the wiki that he has lost touch with other forms of writing altogether.

Mar 31st 2011 at 7:18:13 PM

That's part of the reason that it's tougher to read, just like Natter. It's different when the character are describing themselves with tropes and when a faceless third person is describing them as such. It is more interesting, but I prefer it in controlled doses.

I think it's better to have two pages too.

edited 31st Mar '11 7:20:13 PM by PsychoPJ

Mar 31st 2011 at 8:02:03 PM

I've got no problem with a few of these types of articles, as long as the subject either

A. Is completely in character for them to be breaking the fourth wall like this, (Deadpool, Joker.)

or

B. Has a very distinctive style of speech that they are well known for (DOOM)

dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
Apr 4th 2011 at 7:29:30 PM

personally, I feel that it should only be for characters who break the fourth wall in cannon. Otherwise it's just silly. Also, why are Comic Book characters the only kind to have their own page?

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
troacctid "µ." from California
Apr 4th 2011 at 8:17:14 PM

[up] Other media have stories with characters in them. Comic books have characters with stories around them. Look at all the different series listed on the Batman page. Each of them is its own distinct work, but the character of Batman is a unique franchise in himself.

edited 4th Apr '11 8:17:29 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
Apr 4th 2011 at 8:22:41 PM

I wasn't talking about the main characters. I was asking about the side characters

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
Apr 4th 2011 at 8:24:38 PM

Why not just create a Trivia tab for the first-person articles and use that to write the 3rd-person description of their biography?

2xN 2xN from Boston
2xN
Apr 4th 2011 at 10:50:40 PM

I like having a page on the side such as the above mentioned trivia tab, as long as the self-demonstration is kept on the main page. I don't think we really have to worry about natter any more than the other pages, the main concern is that the article looks like it was written by the same person. (in this case, the character.) Which, again, wouldn't be more difficult than pages that don't self-demonstrate.

edited 4th Apr '11 10:51:30 PM by 2xN

Wiki Development: Firstpersonpages
13th May '11 11:38:21 PM
At issue:
How to handle character pages written in First-person

Total posts: 101
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