The Custodes also never stopped being wary of the Astartes after the Heresy. To them, the Astartes aren't just indoctrinated tools, they are potentially treacherous ones. This extends to the Primarchs as well — the Custodes think the Astartes inherited whatever flaws the Primarchs had that led to the Heresy.
There's a lot of inter-service rivalry in the Imperium, and the Custodes and Astartes' issues with each other is just one example. The Imperium as a whole is a mess.
Edited by M84 on Sep 25th 2024 at 12:01:17 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised![]()
Yeah as I understand it, the Custodes have an inter-service rivalry with the Marines made worse by the heresy proving that Marines could go rogue.
Now it's even more intense with the Grey Knights because they fear they are the final masterpiece of the Emperor, not them. (The Grey Knights totally are BTW.)
Now I AM relatively new to Warhammer so when it comes to how Imperium characters are portrayed, I am surprised when characters actually show some decency. Besides Titus basically being a good guy, and the Marines protesting an order to abandon a planet and commit exterminatus on it, there's also the fact that Sister Argenta from Rogue Trader actually cares about orphans and asked me to comfort them.
People told me that Sisters of Battle don't give a shit about civilians and will happily murder them if they suspect heresy, but then I see that.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"I'm not sure I'd call it an interservice rivalry coz that'd imply the Custodes have been way more active than they were since the Heresy's end, they've only just started again being active.
But its not just the traitor thing. Each Custodes isnt just engineered into a peak warrior, but also trained, educated, so they are scholars, artists, etc... Custodes in many way don't relinquish their humanity the way Marines do.
Marines meanwhile, to put it bluntly, are child soldiers who never got to grow up and have the emotional maturity this implies.
Like, the Guardsmen have turned traitor and the Custodians don't really hold a grudge to them, or for the Mechanicus. But I think the Custodians see the Marines as a strictly worse version of themselves. Like, a twisted reflection of what they could've been.
the Adeptus Sororita aren't just warriors. They are various orders, several non militant. And even the various militant orders have different priorities and philosophy. So how a SOB reacts to civilian can be just as varied as a Marine.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 24th 2024 at 12:11:06 PM
That said, it's also the Custodes who helped integrate the Primaris Marines into the Astartes. If an Astartes Chapter was reluctant to take in the Primaris Marines, the Custodes were the ones who forced them. Though even then, most of the Custodes tried to stop Roboute from doing it. It was specifically the Emissaries Imperatus — the Custodes who supposedly can hear the Emperor's voice even while he's on the Throne — telling them the Emperor approved of the Primaris.
Disgusted, but not surprised![]()
Yeah, the Sisters of Battle have an educational and medical branch from what I understand, but I was told that Order of our Martyred laady were one of the more brutal ones, but then you see Argenta comfort orphans.
Granted, she did not give a shit when those civilians got burned alive on her option so there's that.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"One of the more recent Codexes reveals it was actually the first Legion of Astartes, the Dark Angels, who purged the few remaining Thunder Warriors. It was the Astartes' very first combat sortie.
There's a bitter irony that the Defenders of Humanity's first targets would be their predecessors who also fought and died for the Emperor.
Disgusted, but not surprised![]()
I personally see the Custodes as also being motivated by a sense of superiority that they are closer to the Emperor than most of the Marines and see the Marines competition for the Emperor’s favor.
It’s why they are jealous at the idea that the Grey Knights could be the real masterpiece of the Emperor, not them.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"And in all fairness, those Thunder Warriors were planning a coup.
In even more fairness, this is because they found out their augmentations left them with shortened lifespans and a lot of other health complications down the line. They didn't appreciate the Emperor giving them an expiration date.
Disgusted, but not surprisedOn Brand for the Emperor as in the Emperor is very much the kind to use and discard people for pragmatic reasons.
I don't think so, coz the Emperor was pretty open that Marines were to be defenders of humanity, not leaders. And frankly Marines don't compare to Custodians, there's nothing for the Custodians to be jealous of.
I think it's more that the Custodians being close to the emperor were kinda basked in his vision for humanity. Unlike Marines they don't forget their root. they steep themselves in art, philosophy, science. They live and breathe humanity and hold themselves as the pinnacle of humanity save the Emperor. And I think it rattles them to see the Marines being so inhuman. They have no family save their chapter. No hobbies. No lives. They don't understand the imperium they defend. They are sentient weapons. It's easier for a custodian to relate to a guardman, someone who has a family, hobbies, aspirations, than to a marine.
The Custodes' main limitation is that they cannot handle threats from the Warp as effectively as they do mortal foes. But the Emperor already took that into account originally since the Sisters of Silence — Blanks who weaken Warp power — were formed to fight as a support unit for the Custodes.
Edited by M84 on Sep 25th 2024 at 12:41:12 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised"As easily as they handle mortal foes" is relative speaking. It's like when saying Superman is weak to magic. Sure, but the dude still survives direct magical lightning strikes that would kill a regular man.
Turns out most daemons are very vulnerable to being stabbed and Custodians are still very good at stabbing and probably handle your average warp threat better than your average non librarian marine.
But yeah Custodians + Sisters of Silence is like the ultimate combo.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 24th 2024 at 12:47:08 PM
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Yeah never forget what the Emperor did to Angron.
As for the Custodes, yeah that's a good point about them just being on a whole different level and more complete as a human being compared to the Marines, but I still see the Custodes as not being immune to petty rivalries even when the Marines clearly pose no threat to them being the Emperor's favorites. Because there's a lot of shame in the fact that the Custodes failed in their duties to protect the Emperor and I think that's a source of insecurity in some regards. They clearly aren't immune to jealousy as they are towards the Grey Knights.
Even the Grey Knights are designed to fight Chaos daemons and not lead the Imperium like the Custodes doesn't really dissuade the idea that they are the Emperor's final masterpiece since they can actually take the fight to Chaos while that's a field the Custodes need the sisters of silence for.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 25th 2024 at 12:43:13 AM
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"I dont see the Custodians being jealous of the marines. For one, they don't even interact that much. Second, as I've said before, the Custodians really have nothing to be jealous of in the marines. They are strictly better, closer to the Emperor, and not as big fuck ups. It'd just be weird to have this imagined rivalry with someone who not only you never see but who will bend the knee the moment you show your face.
Yeah maybe the Grey Knights, that could be more of a rivalry, but I think even then, them being under the finger of the Inquisition (and still being Marines), would make Custodians just kinda shrug. But hey maybe they have the emperor's gene seed so its more plausible.
Tho ultimately the Grey Knights are still better equipped to handle threats from the Warp while Custodes need aid from the Sisters of Silence so that's one field they are inferior to them in, when the rank of Custodes DEMANDS perfection.
Granted, Titus is basically immune to warp corruption and NONE of his squad mates are negatively affected either from directly entering the warp and fighting a lord of change.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 25th 2024 at 12:47:02 AM
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Yeah the GK are better against Daemons but that again, speaks poorly of the Grey Knights. the Space marines are tools. the Grey Knights are just a very specialized tool.
They are more effective against demons the same way an anti-tank shell is more effective at taking out tanks. Yeah. It's what it was made for.
No one asks the anti-tank shell for advice, counsel, to debate.
About the Space Marines are basically child soldiers, I recalled that most Marine back in the Crusade era weren't children when the joined, many of them were soldiers in the Unification War before got turned into Marine. Why did they change to using children post-heresy?
E.T technically is a Isekai movie![]()
Yeah but that's still a field that the Grey Knights surpass the Custodes in right?
And the Custodes demand perfection in combat and politics.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 25th 2024 at 1:00:11 AM
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Dunno about demand perfection in politics, since the Custodians don't get involved in running the Imperium for the most part, despite generally having a seat amongst the High Lord and the Companions having basically the Authority to overturn any imperial decision.
re: Recruiting kids
AFAIK its coz the surgery is easier on younger recruits than older ones.
But it's also worth noting that the OG marines, the Grey Legions were kind of just an intermediary step until big E could get his kids back. Never the final product.
Yeah, the Astartes augmentation has a higher chance of success with younger candidates. Ideally it starts at age 10. The whole process takes about six years.
Custodes meanwhile are modified from infancy.
This is also why the Rubicon surgery that turns a regular Astartes like Titus into a Primaris is so dangerous. The ideal period in which to add the three Primaris implants is in the middle of the Astartes augmentation, not after it. Calgar was the first to go through it, and it did kill him. He came back to life after the Belisarian Furnace Primaris implant jump started his hearts.
This was moot in Titus’ case since the prologue ended with him mortally wounded. He would have died regardless. Presumably the Rubicon surgery saved him thanks to the new Belisarian Furnace reviving him the way it revived Calgar.
Edited by M84 on Sep 25th 2024 at 1:53:30 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised![]()
When it comes to perfection in politics, doesn’t it refer to the fact Custodes are meant to be the Emperor’s own advisors and emotional support? So they have to be good at politics to advise him.
But they also give advice to the high lords but don’t really take a direct role in governing things as I understand it.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

Custodes in general have a poor view of marines, seeing them as basically indoctrinated tools less than full fledged people.
And yeah, the episode is really good coz it shows Marines divided between the chapter honor and their duty to the Emperor.