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Now, bring on the questions, baby!

edited 11th Apr '18 6:31:51 PM by dRoy

Nukeli The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light from A Dark Planet Lit By No Sun Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light
Nov 18th 2020 at 8:30:02 AM

I'm drafting a pretty dark superhero story.

It's about a random woman who goes off the deep end after a relatively minor incident and chooses to become a bow-wielding vigilante because she has always wanted to so why the hell not. She kills a few people and injures several more, and brawls with a gang. Then she finds out that they're associated with some other equally random woman. This woman has decided that the world needs a superhero and that the best way to create a superhero is to become a dangerous supervillain so that somebody will rise to fight her. After they become aware of each other's existence the shit gets dark, while both women try to keep their identities secret from their families and the media and the government, while violently living out their adolescent fantasies without a care of anything but the thrill of the action.

Is this a good concept? Do you have any title suggestions?

Edited by Nukeli on Nov 18th 2020 at 6:59:58 PM

~ * Bleh * ~
kkhohoho Deranged X-Mas Figure from The Insanity Pole Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Deranged X-Mas Figure
Nov 18th 2020 at 9:02:03 AM

[up]As a fan of Superheroes, I'm against it on principal.

Like, I don't know what your stance is on the genre. But this is the sort of thing you'd see in The Boys or Marshall Law. And both of those are the worst sort of deconstructions you can find.

I don't need Grim Dark nonsense to tell me that Superheroes are an escapist fantasy and have no place in reality.

Edited by kkhohoho on Nov 18th 2020 at 12:51:48 PM

Doctor Who — Long Way Around: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13536044/1/Doctor-Who-Long-Way-Around
Nukeli The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light from A Dark Planet Lit By No Sun Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light
Nov 18th 2020 at 9:26:11 AM

I don't really think i have a stance on superheroes. Everything goes if it fits my mood or the ideas of the moment or if somebody else's stuff gives me ideas. I explore and poke at things and sometimes take them to their natural conclusions, which has the capability to go really dark.

Aside from this psychological grimdark shitshow, i also have another pretty standard superhero story but inspired by norse mythology, and a silver-agey and lighthearted superhero storynote  i made because i found X-Men and the current state of the world deppressing. Everything goes. I also don't like how people just brand everything they don't like as "eDgY" nowadays.

Edited by Nukeli on Nov 18th 2020 at 7:31:49 PM

~ * Bleh * ~
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Nov 18th 2020 at 12:31:45 PM

Well, in your story, what's the conflict? It sounds like both women got what they wanted, so no drama?

"Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud."
Nukeli The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light from A Dark Planet Lit By No Sun Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light
Nov 18th 2020 at 12:47:44 PM

The drama is the shit they do in order to get what they want/while doing what they want, the consequences of their actions for themselves and society, and how it affects the people around them and people in the street.

They're also fighting each other the whole time, and the bow woman is going for the kill (the villain isn't, because that would ruin her whole point). The hero kills and cripples several people, and the villain becomes a straight up terrorist because she wants to up the stakes. They both develop some kind of sociopathic disassociation and see the whole thing as a game.

Edited by Nukeli on Nov 18th 2020 at 11:00:55 AM

~ * Bleh * ~
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Nov 18th 2020 at 1:16:07 PM

No, I mean the narrative conflict. In a story, the protagonist has some goal that they cannot reach because of some barrier preventing them, usually associated with an antagonist. Overcoming those barriers (the antagonist) is the plot, and also the basis for any character development you plan. So what goal does your protag want to accomplish, and what prevents them from achieving it?

"Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud."
Nov 18th 2020 at 1:49:43 PM

[up][up] If you mean to have the characters realize that doing exciting criminal things isn't actually exciting when it becomes standard, and that that sociopathic disassociation only exacerbates the problem because now it's drudgery and you can't disassociate drudgery, and that causes a Heel–Face Turn or Hazy Feel Turn as the "hero" grows to despise criminality on moral grounds instead of "it's not fun anymore" grounds, that would be a very interesting story, at least to me. Right now it just sounds like stakes for the sake of drama, and that never ends well.

Working that in, I'd also advise that you take [up]'s post into account. What's going to cause the inciting incident? How will the exploration of both characters' damaged psyches progress the plot and Character Development? Et cetera.

Kindness can shatter a life as easily as it can make a day.
Nukeli The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light from A Dark Planet Lit By No Sun Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light
Nov 18th 2020 at 2:47:48 PM

The villain never found the mess particularly entertaining (she was just convinced that it was a good idea so she did it. Yeah, she's supposed to be crazy), but the protagonist did what she did for the rush. She does eventually get tired of it, but the villain doesn't want her to retire because it would make the whole shitshow pointless, so she kills the protagonist's dogs, which makes it about revenge when the protagonist goes at the villain again towards the story's end.

She doesn't really get a heel-face turn though. She's supposed to be a borderline sociopath, and Character Development isn't a sociopath thing in Real Life. The villain isn't a sociopath (at least not as much) and is just utterly convinced that her plan will work. Then she starts going a little overboard with it.

The inciting incident of the protagonist's vigilantism was when her boyfriend was wounded by a gangmember and she jumped the opportunity to put on a mask and attack the gang. Then she just keeps fighting unrelated people until the main antagonist shows up.

The protagonist vs. the main villain plot's inciting incident is when the antagonist sends thugs to fight the protagonist and kills her boyfriend in order to provoke her into fighting the antagonist. The protagonist is less disturbed than one would think, but is still a little pissed off (though not enough to not eventually drop the revenge quest. For a while. Until her dogs die too).

Edited by Nukeli on Nov 18th 2020 at 12:50:07 PM

~ * Bleh * ~
Nov 18th 2020 at 7:06:15 PM

Huh, then I don't know what to say. Maybe it could be an exploration of the way the illusion of being a hero affects someone and how power corrupts/reveals, like in Watchmen. Other than that, I really don't like the idea. These people just sound so terrible that the Eight Deadly Words are in full play.

Kindness can shatter a life as easily as it can make a day.
Nukeli The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light from A Dark Planet Lit By No Sun Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light
Nov 19th 2020 at 6:50:45 AM

It's kind of the point that both the protagonist and the antagonist are both insane and evil because who, in the real world, would sew a spandex costume and go around beating people up for fun?

I was going for Inglourious Basterds style conflict where the protagonist and antagonists are all some kind of sociopaths but they're fighting each othernote .

Edited by Nukeli on Nov 19th 2020 at 4:56:55 PM

~ * Bleh * ~
Swordofknowledge Swordofknowledge from I like it here... Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Swordofknowledge
Nov 19th 2020 at 8:22:33 AM

Just out of pure curiosity I'm curious if the following is a Stable Time Loop or some other time travel type trope or something else entirely.

I've asked a question about this setting before but: In my Urban Fantasy series, my protagonist eventually undergoes a horrifying Face–Heel Turn into the "savior of humanity" via becoming a god and taking control of every single werewolf on Earth and using them as killing machines against all vampires.

He eventually achieves this goal by coming into contact with the "nexus" of the force that created all werewolves to begin with and while he's trying to usurp and replace it, he is bombarded with all the memories of every werewolf who has ever lived.

Now, there is a scene in the first book in which the protagonist is asking his future father-in-law for permission to ask for his girlfriend's hand in marriage, and they happen to be a family of werewolves. The father-in-law is amenable to this and they are on good terms—-except he suddenly becomes hostile and demands to know if the protagonist can protect her or if she will have to spend her life saving him from all sorts of disasters due to their unequal strength. It's quite jarring and doesn't make any sense in context...but he eventually snaps out of it, and gives his blessing, while being confused as to what came over him.

Now when the protagonist is in the nexus and "surfing" through the memories of various werewolves, he comes across the memory of his father-in-law about to grant his blessing and knows that it ends horribly with his girlfriend's death. So he "steps in" and demands if his past self can really step up to the plate as a husband. He cannot maintain control over his father-in-law for long and is "thrown out" after only a few minutes, but it is enough to get his harsh message across. Of course, he still is granted the blessing and tragedy ensues.

What I wonder is...is this time travel? Does this mean that everything that happened afterwards is a Bad Future that happened because the protagonist could not prevent tragedy from taking place?

I hope this makes sense; I was trying to go for brevity and simplification.

Edited by Swordofknowledge on Nov 19th 2020 at 11:22:59 AM

"Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake." —Edgar Wallace
Nukeli The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light from A Dark Planet Lit By No Sun Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Master Of Fright & A Demon Of Light
Nov 19th 2020 at 8:28:39 AM

[up] But if he's just seeing into people's memories and somehow inserting himself into them, it isn't really time travel and should logically not be able to affect the past.

~ * Bleh * ~
Swordofknowledge Swordofknowledge from I like it here... Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Swordofknowledge
Nov 19th 2020 at 8:59:41 AM

[up] [[it isn't really time travel and should logically not be able to affect the past]]

  • I see. For some reason it really did feel like some sort of time travel to me, but I suppose I'm wrong.

  • As for the second part, the part about him affecting the past (or at least The Reveal that he affected the past) is meant to be Wham Episode revelation, and there is a sort of context. What created the werewolves is basically an Animalistic Abomination of a benevolent sort and is simultaneously connected to every single person with lycanthropy in the world. One character describes it as a "giant beast" and that every werewolf is essentially a "hair on that beast's body". In other words, all of them, past present and future are affected by what goes on with it. It's the reason for some of their more supernatural powers like telepathic communication...and also why the protagonist can control all werewolves like puppets when he replaces and becomes that "beast". But even those who have devoted their lives to the study of this phenomenon never expected something like manipulating the past in that kind of way, even if it is futile in the end.

Edited by Swordofknowledge on Nov 19th 2020 at 12:01:53 PM

"Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake." —Edgar Wallace
ArsThaumaturgis Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Nov 19th 2020 at 9:59:12 AM

It sounds like an instance of Mental Time Travel; and indeed, if the character does in fact take part in the past (as opposed to just acting out a piece of it), then I would classify it as a type of time-travel.

Night River: A Short, Simple, Spooky Experience. (Okaywithsomebadaudiosorry. T-T)
C105 Too old for this from France Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
Nov 19th 2020 at 12:26:25 PM

Did his father in law's outburst contribute to his decision of controlling all werewolves that would end up putting him in this place? If so, this is a Stable Time Loop (something that happened in his past caused him to eventually cause it) or Ontological Paradox (this would be if he uses the words he remembers his father in law saying). Otherwise, it is mostly a case of You Can't Fight Fate (whatever he tries to change the past fails).

Whatever your favourite story is, there is always a vocal majority of the fandom who considers it Worst Story Ever.
Swordofknowledge Swordofknowledge from I like it here... Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Swordofknowledge
Nov 19th 2020 at 1:13:41 PM

Did his father in law's outburst contribute to his decision of controlling all werewolves that would end up putting him in this place?
.

His father and law's outburst didn't have any direct effect on his decision, but the death of his girlfriend was one of the things that pushed him into increasingly irrational and insane hatred for the vampire race (Friendly Neighborhood Vampire types included) and fueled his desire to wipe them all out...using the werewolves. Again not the only thing, but her death got the ball rolling so to speak.

His attempt at taking over his father in law was a spur-of-the-moment thing that happened while he was becoming a "god" and he was trying to use the man to convince his past self to abandon any hope of a life with his girlfriend, so that they would break up and she would avoid the incident that eventually took her life. But as shown in the first book, his control was too fragile and so the father in law broke out of it and everyone dismissed the incident.

Edited by Swordofknowledge on Nov 19th 2020 at 4:23:27 AM

"Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake." —Edgar Wallace
C105 Too old for this from France Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
Nov 19th 2020 at 2:05:24 PM

OK. Then it seems to me to be a mix between You Already Changed the Past and You Can't Fight Fate. Was that the answer you were expecting?

Whatever your favourite story is, there is always a vocal majority of the fandom who considers it Worst Story Ever.
Swordofknowledge Swordofknowledge from I like it here... Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Swordofknowledge
Nov 19th 2020 at 3:01:23 PM

To be honest I wasn't entirely sure what I was expecting. I just wondered if there was some sort of time travel type trope that applied to this particular and weird situation. I was definitely going for the understanding that the protagonist had caused this earlier event to take place via his tampering with the spiritual "core" of all werewolves that exists outside time and space. But apart from that, it was kind of up in the air.

Edited by Swordofknowledge on Nov 19th 2020 at 6:03:03 AM

"Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake." —Edgar Wallace
dRoy Ready to Rant from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ready to Rant
Nov 20th 2020 at 7:56:58 AM

One of my story is a medieval fantasy story, and the scene features a count's son and a duke.

The duke has such a bad reputation that he's most commonly called "the Bastard Duke (it doesn't help that he IS the king's illegitimate son)." However, he's actually just shy, has extremely poor skills with words, and all around socially awkward.

So a count's son, a scholar and a warrior, challenges the duke to a duel, which ends in a one-sided defeat for the former (the duke is the single greatest warrior in the history of the kingdom, period). The duke, knowing that the young man is a very talented scholar, tries to say:

"While your swordsmanship is truly remarkable, I suggest you focus less on sword-fighting and more on studies. This kingdom has enough fighters and could use more fine scholars like yourself."

Now, what's the shortest and absolutely dickish way to say this? Like, so much that it hurts the young man's heart that it's one of the last things he remembers during his death.

Ones I got so far are:

"You are no good as a swordsman. Stick to books."

"You belong to the libraries, not here."

Edited by dRoy on Nov 21st 2020 at 1:08:03 AM

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
TheWhistleTropes stay foxy milads from Relationship Status: not s
stay foxy milads
Nov 20th 2020 at 8:10:45 AM

"Your pen has inklings the might of his sword."

wall | sandbox
ArsThaumaturgis Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Nov 20th 2020 at 11:34:07 AM

@Swordofknowledge:

I just wondered if there was some sort of time travel type trope that applied to this particular and weird situation.
Did you see my mention of Mental Time Travel? I believe that that's another trope that fits your situation.

@dRoy:
I might suggest: "Your swordsmanship(1) is useless(2). Stick to books—you might see use there."
(1) Here meaning "having the quality of a swordsman; being a good fighter".
(2) As in, "actually not of great utility to the realm, given the number of other swordfighters available".

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Nov 20th 2020 at 9:36:08 PM

Night River: A Short, Simple, Spooky Experience. (Okaywithsomebadaudiosorry. T-T)
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Nov 20th 2020 at 11:52:38 AM

"Your pen is mightier than your sword, sir."

"Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud."
AdeptGaderius from The Backrooms Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Nov 20th 2020 at 6:26:35 PM

For a fantasy race I'm designing, said race is based on trilobites. Said fantasy race uses Attack Animals based on Paleozoic sea creatures evolved to be larger and adapt to the subterranean conditions of the world.

What are some candidates for it?

My favorite post: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=7rvl1iw148pv4sygy6br981b&page=6284#comment-157088
eagleoftheninth Be seeing you. from The Grandest Bookshop in the World Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Be seeing you.
Nov 20th 2020 at 6:31:17 PM

Tullimonstrum

I'd go with the Cambrian-era anomalocarids, which were some of the earliest known apex predators and had some powerful aesthetics to boot.

With shortness of breath, you explained the infinite.
ChicoTheParakeet from a bird cage
Nov 21st 2020 at 2:04:47 AM

I really disliked the Boys, I'm not a fan of its message that Reed Richards is useless. I'm really proud of with great power comes great responsibility, we should realize it and adapt our actions accordingly.

My work is about powered vigilantes wanting to help others but are feared by the public. They end up facing against people who are abusing their powers (a coup d'etat, a cult, and a group of terrorists).

How should I express "people with power need to realize the benefits they can accomplish"?


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