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edited 11th Apr '18 6:31:51 PM by dRoy

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#25551: May 8th 2023 at 11:43:19 AM

Anyone here familiar with police procedure when dealing with juvenile suspected burglars?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Cutegirl920fire Player 222 from the Squid Games (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: Paris holds the key to my heart
Player 222
#25552: May 8th 2023 at 8:26:12 PM

Does the CASA (court-appointed special advocate) occuptation accurately describes what this character does?

So, in a past NaNoWriMo novel, I had this character who assisted the MC (who's a foster kid) get adopted and was basically her case manager. I didn't know the proper term at the time and I was more focused on getting the words out, so I didn't do too much research on it.

Now, as I remake the novel, I figured I should at least know what this character is occupation wise and with a quick Google search, stumbled upon CASA but I'm not sure if it fits them.

Edited by Cutegirl920fire on May 8th 2023 at 8:30:16 AM

CG for short
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#25553: May 8th 2023 at 8:26:17 PM

[up][up]

In what country?

If it is the U.S.A., then this page has a 97 pages PDF manual about that.

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/police-procedures-handling-juveniles

Edited by jawal on May 8th 2023 at 4:26:49 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#25554: May 9th 2023 at 12:54:18 AM

Switzerland, actually, but information on how this stuff works here is really hard to come by or, to be precise, is a bit too general to extrapolate a scenario from - what I need isn't general guidelines but an idea of what an officer would do in a specific situation.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#25555: May 9th 2023 at 2:08:10 AM

I think it depends on a few things, like:

  • Are these kids from a marginalized group? IDK how things are in Switzerland but profiling be nasty
  • Do these kids have pre-existing criminal records or behavioral problems?
  • What's the cop's personality like in general? Good cop? Bad cop?
  • How severe was the burglary?

Like, I don't think there's one specific answer — it should boil down to a combination of local laws / attitudes and the characters involved.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#25556: May 9th 2023 at 2:58:35 AM

Hrmm. It's three boys, which the officers would (correctly) guess are in the age of criminal responsibility. Two of them are unknown to police, but they have clearly been in a physical altercation and one is carrying a small, blood-stained knife. They are helping the third along, who clearly needs medical assistance. The officers at the site have seen the third boy before, but that only tells them that he lives in the town.

The town in question doesn't have a lot of crime, period, let alone violent crime, but if police goes to the house where the burglary took place they'll find a seriously injured man. The first two boys aren't explaining much [they have been raised with the ethos that while you always comply with police requests, you never answer their questions other than very basic ones] and the third isn't in a state to say anything.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#25557: May 9th 2023 at 3:17:38 AM

Sounds like the police have a probable cause to arrest the two young men, provisionally, and contact their parents if they are minors.

If the theft is reported, or they find the injured man dead, they can analyze the blood on the knife, and use it as proof.

I think the difference between adult and adolescent criminals, lay more in the punishment they receive, a police investigator should proceed the same as with an adult, but informing the parents or the legal guardians first.

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
Swordofknowledge Spreading literacy with book and blade from I like it here... Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Spreading literacy with book and blade
#25558: May 9th 2023 at 5:18:50 AM

How would I handle the...I guess mindset, for lack of a better word, of a character who has found out they are dying? This is a huge aspect of this story and while I definitely have the results and aspects of it interwoven into the plot, I'm stuck on how the character would initially react to the news.

To explain:

One of my four main characters finds out very early in the story that she is suffering from the early symptoms of a terminal illness that afflicts vampires. There is no cure and the disease progresses until it slowly and painfully kills the victim.

As things stand now, she hides her sickness from everyone for a number of reasons (some of them political) but I cannot really put myself in her exact mindset as she grapples with the actual situation. Would it be overwhelming fear? Rage? Denial and disbelief even as she knows the undeniable truth?

This is all over the place, but I guess I just wonder how someone would react to the situation, and if her facade of normalcy is even realistic. I know people hide serious and even fatal conditions all the time in Real Life so it's not impossible, I just wonder how to portray someone struggling like this.

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#25559: May 9th 2023 at 6:29:16 AM

^I think that depends on the personality and disease involved. For example, in Huntington's disease about one quarter of patients attempt suicide at some point; from your description it seems like your patient might try to end their life before the disease does it. Others might deny it until their last breath. It depends, really.

^^Hrmm, so I need to look at arrest procedure. As it happens to be, the two boys had a good reason both for the burglary and the assault, but it's not something that the police at the scene can suspect without a bit of follow-up investigation.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Swordofknowledge Spreading literacy with book and blade from I like it here... Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Spreading literacy with book and blade
#25560: May 9th 2023 at 6:44:47 AM

[up] @ Septimus Heap:

It's interesting (and shows how I really do need outside help on this one tongue) because I didn't even consider the fact that she might contemplate suicide, especially with how painful and degrading the disease is in its late stages. As for her personality...

To put it in perspective, she is to be married to a powerful ally of her family and was raised to believe that this is her purpose in life. Letting anyone know about her condition would destroy everything since it means she has a drastically limited amount of time. Thus, the political reason for her hiding it. As for personal reasons, I guess denial and wanting to pretend nothing is wrong could work, along with a great deal of self-pity.

I intend her for to reach a very maladaptive sort of acceptance of her fate, which drives her to do some pretty rash and ultimately devastating things, but it's just a matter of how I start off that I'm struggling with.

Edited by Swordofknowledge on May 9th 2023 at 9:46:32 AM

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#25561: May 10th 2023 at 2:01:36 AM

When were women first allowed to be in the Austrian police?

Wikipedia leaves it unclear whether women were only allowed in the 1990s, or whether that was just when they become significant (while saying the first German policewoman was in 1903).

I was considering whether one of Red Revenge's nazi supervillains could've had investigative experience before joining the Gestapo (where she somehow accidentally gained telekinetic powers).

Edited by Nukeli on May 10th 2023 at 12:08:02 PM

~*bleh*~
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#25562: May 10th 2023 at 3:05:27 AM

German Wikipedia says that the first female officer was in 1909, although she and her successors had a somewhat different function from normal officers.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Swordofknowledge Spreading literacy with book and blade from I like it here... Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Spreading literacy with book and blade
#25563: May 10th 2023 at 5:03:31 AM

Does the following make this character an abusive parent? I'm hoping it really doesn't since his actions are a large part of the plot.

My main character's father is an ordinary human, albeit one who has (very limited) knowledge of the supernatural world. Anyway, he's fairly powerless in the grand scheme of things, and knows he is surrounded by powerful beings who can get things done.

Here is where the possible abuse comes in:

When he finds out that his son (the main character) has supernatural powers, he pretty much abdicates his job as a father and hands the "reigns" of the plan to save the rest of the family to him. He still comforts him, gives his thoughts, but he lets the main character come up with plans on his own, and pretty much puts the weight of saving everyone on his shoulders.

He actually did the same thing to another of the protagonists (who wasn't even his child but the daughter of his lifelong friend) although the manipulation was far worse in that case.

It's intended to be part of the Deconstruction of the "teenage hero" trope and it is at least a small part of what drove my main character to his eventual apocalyptic Face–Heel Turn.

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
Cutegirl920fire Player 222 from the Squid Games (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: Paris holds the key to my heart
Player 222
#25564: May 10th 2023 at 5:12:05 AM

[up] I'm not a parent so take this with a grain of salt:

Letting your kid do like all of the planning is putting great pressure on them. I imagine having supernatural powers and dealing with whatever the plot is is stressful enough, so having a parent who doesn't help you with the planning doesn't help.

I'm not sure if this is abusive but it does read as dickish.

CG for short
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#25565: May 10th 2023 at 5:20:20 AM

[up][up]

It is hard to tell without an example, but the idea does not seem bad in principle.

If there is say a supernatural war going on, and the son is involved, either he wanted or not, then trusting your son to use his powers wisely, while encouraging him and offering emotional support, is not a bad idea.

The alternatives will be a parent that try to control his son or micromanage his action, without understanding the situation or the powers he deals with.

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
Swordofknowledge Spreading literacy with book and blade from I like it here... Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Spreading literacy with book and blade
#25566: May 10th 2023 at 5:21:37 AM

[up] @ Cutegirl920fire:

Thanks for giving your perspective. I definitely don't intend for him to be abusive, just...destructive, I guess. He has a long backstory that explains why he is this way but suffice to say he has always felt powerless when compared to the supernatural entities he's surrounded by and sees them as having far more agency and ability to alter things than a mere human. And to be fair, he's right in a few ways, but he definitely hurt his son by putting all the pressure on him.

His father is a member of the team trying to take down the insane former main character and he acknowledges this negligence as his "contribution" to the current situation. I just wanted to make sure he didn't come off as outright terrible!

...now, his manipulating the other character who wasn't his kid was outright wrong and far darker, but that's a whole other situation.

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
Swordofknowledge Spreading literacy with book and blade from I like it here... Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Spreading literacy with book and blade
#25567: May 10th 2023 at 5:25:41 AM

[up][up] @ Jawal:

Sorry, got [nja]'d. It's been a while since that happened lol.

It is hard to tell without an example, but the idea does not seem bad in principle.

Here is an small (well, huge in the story) example of what I mean. The main character's mother and baby sister have been abducted by vampires who serve one of the Big Bad Ensemble. Rather than help my main character plan out a rescue, his father just asks him what to do. On the surface it is reasonable, since the main character is familiar with this villain, but he doesn't offer emotional support either, just makes it clear how high the stakes are and tells him that he is putting his trust in him.

The alternatives will be a parent that try to control his son or micromanage his action, without understanding the situation or the powers he deals with.

That is true and would be a whole other type of...not abuse but certainly unhelpful behavior, so that's a good point.

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#25568: May 10th 2023 at 5:30:16 AM

[up]

In the example you give, it sounds like the father is doing the reasonable thing.

They both want the mother and sister saved, so he is not forcing his son to intervene, and instead of trying to control a situation he does not understand, he trusts his son, that he is also the "expert", to put up a plan.

So he sounds supportive to me.

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit (Living Relic)
#25569: May 10th 2023 at 5:30:34 AM

From what I understand of parents, at least the decent ones who truly love and care for their children, is that they will always want to help them and keep them safe, even when they're full-fledged adults with jobs and spouses and even children of their own. Just because he can't partake directly in the fight doesn't automatically mean the dad would be fine just stepping aside- he still knows his son and his needs, and teenagers aren't exactly known for thinking ahead and having an objective view of themselves and their limitations and capabilities. It could be an informal deal like he lets his son come up with the initial plans and they flesh them out together, with Dad getting the final say.

Of course, given that the kid loses it in the end, maybe you could leave it as is, or even make it a little worse. Like maybe one of the kid's plans goes wrong and they lose someone or something, and the dad, in a well-meaning attempt to impress the gravity of their work on his son, just winds up making the kid feel even worse and even more like a failure. Not all abusers are cackling, mustache-twirling villains who expressly and knowingly want to hurt their victims- sometimes, they may genuinely have their best interests at heart, but just go about it in ways that make them feel bad.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Swordofknowledge Spreading literacy with book and blade from I like it here... Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Spreading literacy with book and blade
#25570: May 10th 2023 at 6:11:12 AM

[up][up] @ Jawal:

I guess in that particular case you are right. I guess I considered it at least slightly unideal due to him not providing any real "stability" in a truly horrific and stressful moment, but you do have a point about him being practical and leaving it to someone who knows the situation. It certainly makes me think.

It is good that he sounds supportive since I don't want him to be an abuser, just someone who perhaps could have done a better job.


[up] @ Crystal Glacia:

It could be an informal deal like he lets his son come up with the initial plans and they flesh them out together, with Dad getting the final say.

That's actually a pretty good idea and is definitely something I would have implemented if I wanted this to be a 100 percent parent/son team. It kind of makes me a little sad that this isn't what happens lol.

I guess, if I could describe it accurately, the way the main character's father treats him after his powers are discovered vs how he treats him before is like night and day. He still treats him as his son, but rather than like a kid, he treats him like another adult who is an expert in the supernatural, rather than someone who is trying to keep his head above water and has a huge responsibility on his shoulders. He's no Gendo Ikiri but he certainly abdicates a lot of his role in helping and planning things, leaving his son to do the heavy-lifting.

Not all abusers are cackling, mustache-twirling villains who expressly and knowingly want to hurt their victims- sometimes, they may genuinely have their best interests at heart

This is slightly off topic, but I just find this interesting in relation to this story. One of the most genuinely kind and compassionate characters in it is actually quite manipulative and I'd argue somewhat abusive, yet he is completely unaware of it and legitimately cared for his "victim". It wasn't something I exactly planned as much as I thought about later (with this forum's help actually). Anyway, it's just a good point that really applied to this setting.

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#25571: May 10th 2023 at 6:17:31 AM

I considered that another supervillain from Red Revenge, Thunderlight, could've been born in Alsace-Lorraine before or during WWI, and his family kicked out by the French after the occupation.

How old would he propably have had to be to retain any significant memory of the place/the event?

~*bleh*~
jawal Since: Sep, 2018
#25572: May 10th 2023 at 6:21:29 AM

Personally, I will say 4 years old.

I have older memories but is at 4 years, that I was sufficiently aware of myself, family, house and city, to develop attachment.

Edited by jawal on May 10th 2023 at 2:23:12 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt
Nukeli Since: Aug, 2018
#25573: May 10th 2023 at 8:14:38 AM

Back on The Maiden, since police background wouldn't work, could she plausibly have been some sort of a private investigator? The German wikipedia page is unclear about history and legality in Austria.

~*bleh*~
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#25574: May 10th 2023 at 12:13:56 PM

So, regarding my question, from reading on what little I can find on Swiss police procedure it seems like jawal would be right and under the scenario I wrote the boys would be arrested. Check me on this: They would most likely be restrained/handcuffed/whatever, searched, asked about parents and brought to a police station?

About the other questions:

  • Regarding non-supernaturally gifted parents of supernaturally gifted children, how much does the parent know about the supernatural abilities? They might be wary of giving input on things they don't understand. I don't think this would count as abuse, but they probably ought to ask for outside assistance.
  • I concur on 4 years regarding the childhood memory of the questions.
  • Can't find anything about female detectives, but would a police background dealing with homeless people, runaways and the like work? Because that's where female officers were employed at that time.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Swordofknowledge Spreading literacy with book and blade from I like it here... Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Spreading literacy with book and blade
#25575: May 10th 2023 at 12:29:12 PM

[up] @ Septimus Heap:

Regarding non-supernaturally gifted parents of supernaturally gifted children, how much does the parent know about the supernatural abilities?

In this case, the father knows next to nothing about these powers and how they work. The only thing he knew about the supernatural world was the existence of werewolves, and the werewolves he knew kept him deeply in the dark about what else is out there. Adding insult to injury, he recently found out his wife of twenty years and the mother of his children was a supernatural being, and hid that from him as well...which is why their kids have these powers. And he cannot even ask her or even confront her about it, since she and his younger daughter have been kidnapped.

...he's going through a lot tongue.

I don't think this would count as abuse, but they probably ought to ask for outside assistance
.

That is a good point. Unfortunately, in this setting that is next to impossible (his wife's family is hated by almost every one of their kind and those people would just kill his son if they knew he was her child). But that adds an even more tragic side to it that I may have someone bring up, so thank you.

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace

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