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Breaking the Fourth Wall....so what?

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G.G. Since: Dec, 1969
#1: Mar 18th 2011 at 10:21:44 AM

While being Genre Savvy and somewhat meta may give you bonus points, it doesn't necessarily that you will not play a trope straight. Bowser isn't going to stop trying to get Peach just because he knows is in a game, Bernkastel isn't going to stop trolling because she is a Visual Novel or even Dick Dastardly isn't going to stop cheating because he is a cartoon and he is 'supposed' to do it. Unfortunately, Genre Savvy doesn mean omniscience and just because you are aware certain tropes, doesn't always mean that you know how they are going to be used or what the author's intention is. Ultimately, they are still pretty enslaved to the author whims and the story is going even if they aren't.

What do you think?

Schitzo HIGH IMPACT SEXUAL VIOLENCE from Akumajou Dracula Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: LA Woman, you're my woman
HIGH IMPACT SEXUAL VIOLENCE
#3: Mar 18th 2011 at 11:01:05 AM

Meta Humor bugs me in general, and when a writer uses that as a crutch, it pisses me the fuck off.

ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.
chocoboxxx Since: Dec, 1969
#4: Mar 18th 2011 at 11:27:58 AM

I'm honestly lost. Everytime I look at the post it becomes some sort of weird permutation that says one thing yet implies another. I think the basic gist of what he's trying to say is that a lot of people are tired of tropes in media, yet fail to realize the basic foundation behind tropes; they're not cliches but rather the basic building blocks and foundations behind forms of media which would crumble without them.

I honestly half-way agree with this. Tropes are sturdy story skeletons which have stood the tests of time, even before modern language was developed. However, depending on the circumstance and execution, a little-trope subversion never hurt anybody.

Methinks the OP needs check out this wiki's very own Playing With Tropes section. It takes tropes from the wiki, sets up scenarios for each one, and shows you how you can properly play with tropes through subversion and inversion, etc...

[up] I like meta humor if it doesn't go out of it's way to get noticed, particularly if it's a real Fridge Brilliance style of meta humor. Winking to the audience and other forms of base meta humor are tolerable in Looney Tunes but rarely anywhere else IMO.

edited 18th Mar '11 11:28:39 AM by chocoboxxx

Radd well, it's true from sunny Florida Since: Dec, 1969
well, it's true
#5: Mar 18th 2011 at 1:24:48 PM

Take it here, please.

"Loid, I'm pretty sure you hate your father more than I hate my mother with a hammer" - Ninten, Loids Are Not Christmas
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Mar 18th 2011 at 3:07:25 PM

^ Why? It's a valid discussion (although not very clearly worded) about tropes in general. Why should it be sent off to a site that isn't even connected with TV Tropes?

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Mar 18th 2011 at 3:35:29 PM

A lot of tropes that people somehow think is "good" can easily be used as a crutch to cover sloppy or lazy writing. You can even label Character Development as an excuse why a character changes personality when it is really just Depending on the Writer.

G.G. Since: Dec, 1969
#8: Mar 18th 2011 at 6:31:34 PM

I wanted to talk about how the characters in their respective works may break the fourth wall, they may not their habits change too much. There were some Mario games where the characters do break the foruth wall yet they still continued playing their roles in the games.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#9: Mar 18th 2011 at 6:43:37 PM

That sounds a little like Contractual Genre Blindness - you know about your genre conventions, but you keep playing along with them regardless, even if it means Failure Is the Only Option.

Also, you may be confusing Lampshade Hanging (which can certainly be a form of Medium Awareness) with Breaking the Fourth Wall.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#10: Mar 18th 2011 at 7:30:40 PM

Breaking the fourth wall doesn't mean that they should change anything. It merely means that they acknowledge the audience. (Or an audience.)

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#11: Mar 19th 2011 at 3:53:45 AM

If they're aware they're in a story, then they should be very nervous about not following tropes. Afterall, tropes can be good building blocks for a story, and if averting them makes the story worse, people might stop reading/watching your story, and when that happens your entire universe ceases to exist.

BigT grimAuxiliatrix Since: Jan, 2001
grimAuxiliatrix
#12: Mar 19th 2011 at 9:06:43 AM

The mario thing is weird. He seems to only sometimes know that he's in a story, and then forgets. In fact, it seems rare that someone always knows they are in a story, unless there is No Fourth Wall at all.

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