I think if we have to rename one, its Nightmare Fule, NOT High Octane Nightmare Fuel.Although if we rename NF, we may be able to shorten the name of HONF
Either "X Nightmare Fuel" and "Y Nightmare Fuel" or "Nightmare Fuel" and "Something else that doesn't use the words nightmare or fuel".
Hey, does anyone else hear an echo?
I do accept that "the creators intended this to be scary" and "something went wrong, and this ended up as being scary" are two different things, but the trope names need to change ASAP.
We shouldn't remove either. Nightmare Fuel is a trope, or rather an Audience Reaction. Something that wasn't supposed to be scary, but is anyway. It has a legitimate place on TV Tropes, as much a every other Audience Reactions, so we shouldn't delete it or merge it with something else.
High Octane Nightmare Fuel is not really a trope, because it's just "that was scary" the same way Crowning Moment Of Funny is just "that was funny". But if we remove it, I'm afraid it will only increase the misuse of Nightmare Fuel, unless we also rename Nightmare Fuel into something like Unintentionally Scary and redlink Nightmare Fuel.
I think the best way would be to differentiate the two tropes as much as possible, by renaming one of them so they don't share the same title. So I support renaming High Octane Nightmare Fuel into Moment Of Scary or something, since apparently Nightmare Fuel is a preexisting term.
edited 21st Mar '11 9:48:09 AM by Nithael
*shrug* I'm mostly tossing out suggestions. I'm too busy right now to have a solid opinion on this either way. Merge, keep it the same, rename Nightmare Fuel to something more sensible, I don't mind either way.
I do think that if you're going to call Nightmare Fuel something new, you should strip away the old title. I chose "Gonna Give Kids Nightmares" because that's the most common effect of the trope in action (something intended for kids has elements that scare the crap out of them), and was for a while the definition of the trope. It still gets the intended effect across.
Sakamoto demands an explanation for this shit.
No, no, can't do that either. TV Tropes would be of considerably lower quality if nothing had ever been changed.
On the other hand, it wouldn't be what it is if we just made tons of drastic changes without any second thought, either. I really don't think a merge is the answer; it'll be both limiting and messy.
Formerly Nolan Burke. Natch.^^ We can't do that either. Because whenever that happens, you have the very persistent people who believe they're in the right waiting a month or two and then just restarting the argument in full force until, one day, resistance fails to return and they win.
That's how things get done on this forum 50% of the time, anyway.
the tone of this thread is starting to deteriorate, but at least both sides are giving reasons for the positions now. I think it's time for that crowner I mentioned earlier. Possible actions: Nothing, rename Nightmare Fuel, rename High Octane Nightmare Fuel. Merge the two, or cut one or both.
I... don't actually know how a crowner is started. Regardless, can we all at least agree to put it to a vote?
Fzzr Miller because underscores are brokenHonestly, I don't think Moment of Scary sounds all that good as a trope/Audience Reaction/whatever name. Definitely like the "X Nightmare Fuel and Y Nightmare Fuel" idea, and I agree that most of the misuse seems to be "people misuse Nightmare Fuel" vs. "people misuse HONF."
Here's a thought: move HONF to Nightmare Fuel and make what's currently Nightmare Fuel "Unintentional Nightmare Fuel" or another rename.
"If we're going to rename either of them, it should be Nightmare Fuel. Renaming it Accidental Nightmare Fuel will do far more for sorting things out than renaming this one." - shimaspawn
Or alternatively, just find some way to estimate whether misuse or proper use is more common, and if misuse is significantly more common, just scrap the examples altogether and start over from the very beginning.
there's a crowner linked in the first post but it's not at the bottom of the page like your usual crowner on the forum; what gives?
Fzzr Miller because underscores are broken
I agree, we can do better. I've been trying to think of better names since it became clear no one wanted more drastic action.
Crown Description:

Either way, I'm all against the merge idea; even thinking about the massive, rambling lists of completely mismatched examples that would result makes me nauseous. Renaming Nightmare Fuel to something else (like, as suggested, Unintentionally Scary or whatever), and maybe clarifying their definitons a little, would mean the changes would come slowly, but they'd come sure enough, and people would know what needs to be fixed and how. We can't be overly forceful about such changes.
Formerly Nolan Burke. Natch.