Related: is there a good reason for Nightmare Fuel and High Octane Nightmare Fuel to remain separate? having two separate subpages for "scary" seems increasingly silly as both get muddled together, and considering the subjective nature of them both as well
Fzzr Miller because underscores are brokenOh my god, No. Just... No. As heavily misused this is, its too old to rename.
Given that Xanatos Planned This Index is under siege
, apparently some well-meaning souls have decided the time is right to stand up to The Man on bad-but-grandfather-claused tropes.
I support it in principle, but it's never going to happen and will just cause trouble.
edited 18th Mar '11 5:47:28 PM by nrjxll
I don't usually approve of trying to rename Grandfather Clause tropes but that argument makes altogether too much sense for me to say no. Provisional support, provided it gets off the ground.
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"It will never happen" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Let's get some more voices in here, and follow the attempt through to the end. If there really is a strong (rather than resigned) consensus against it, so be it. So far, "let's not try" is the only other alternative I hear.
Not gonna happen, and frankly, I don't think the name is the problem. The problem is the "Oooh, shiny trope, let me put this example here" syndrome.
edited 19th Mar '11 11:35:35 PM by Scardoll
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.Like others have said, "it's not going to happen" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The notion of using the Grandfather Clause to keep a mistake just because it's been around for a long time is ridiculous.
EDIT: I suppose we could go with a name more articulate than "moment of scary" though. Moment of horror, maybe? These kinds of moments do tend towards the horror genre, along with the darker forms of the action or fantasy genres.
edited 20th Mar '11 6:24:29 AM by neoYTPism
That sums up my feelings on the subject. If I had my druthers we'd nuke the whole thing from orbit. We won't, though, and I don't see any other way to fix it. A rename sure won't.
6300 wicks. If you've ever done a rename you'll know 150 wicks is a lot to do in a day. Say forty days work, but probably more. You're gonna need a lot of people signed up to do it if it goes through. That, or an automated approach of some form.
(We can't swap the page and expect the wicks will get cleaned up by wiki magic. It doesn't happen like that — someone's gotta take the job on. Check Scrabble Babble: 46 wicks, 43 of which are still wrong. "Renamed" on the 1st of March. And that's about 0.007 of the target wicks here.)
edited 20th Mar '11 7:17:46 AM by Camacan
Support. Grandfather Clause or not, that doesn't stop people from getting the two tropes mixed up.
Because it's being heavily misused as The Same But More of Nightmare Fuel, which itself is highly misused.
ETA: I'm surprised at some of the vehemence in this thread against the attempt to change the name. It's most likely due to fears that any effort will create a lot of work, hassle, and bad feelings and not come to anything anyway, because it's certainly not because it's a good name...
edited 20th Mar '11 3:14:06 PM by Leaper
Except... Moment of Scary also doesn't differentiate between this page and Nightmare Fuel.
At least High Octane Nightmare Fuel sounds like it only includes the really scary stuff, which is typically the intentionally scary stuff.
The page has suffered significant decay, but I don't think your idea will solve the problems.
edited 20th Mar '11 3:29:24 PM by Scardoll
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.I actually have an idea of renaming Nightmare Fuel What Do You Mean It'sTerrifying
2012 will never happen, instead it will go straight to 2013
Crown Description:

Once upon a time, we made a page called "Nightmare Fuel" to list examples of unintentional horror. People added examples of intentional horror, so we created a second page, Nightmare Fuel Unleaded to catch those examples.
That was a bad move. The new name miseadingly appeared to be "The Same But More". It tried an indirect solution, rather than fixing the problem page. And it didn't even solve the problem - people keep misusing Nightmare Fuel.
And, perhaps worst of all, it made a page for examples of something that isn't a trope. The current laconic definition reads "Really, deliberately scary stuff, meant to scare everyone." In other words: virtually all scary material. Or: "Horror." That isn't a trope. Thousands of tropes contribute to horror, and we document them, but "scary" is not a trope. High Octane Nightmare Fuel makes as much sense as a counterpart to Nightmare Fuel as Went Into Development Without Incident would as a counterpart to Development Hell.
We separately though, meanwhile, began other media moments lists, suggesting we're actually fine with these tropeless pages. We abandoned the crowning moment tropes, and created moment-ofs. So pages now link to "The Awesome entry," "The Funny entry," "The Heartwarming entry" and... "The High Octane Nightmare Fuel Entry."
That makes no sense. Let's rename the page "Scary Moments" (or, to comply with our odd grammar, "Moment of Scary" or "Moment of Horror") for consistency's sake. We renamed it, not too long ago, from "Nightmare Fuel Unleaded", so the name's far from sactosanct.
Maybe few people misuse High Octane Nightmare Fuel. That's not the issue. But, if anything, MORE will correctly use the more clearly named page.
I'm also sure the page has brought us 10,000 inbound links. We will retain them because High Octane Nightmare Fuel will redirect to the new page. But this is a tiny fraction of the inbounds we'll get if the page tops people's "scary moments in film" Google queries.
And, of course, the page already has thousands of wicks. That suggests how deeply the bad name has pervaded the site so is an argument for a rename. Once we do rename it, we needn't change all the wicks right away. Let them link to the new page's redirect. We have DECADES to clean up the old wicks. The important thing is to correct the actual page to guide new contributions.
Please no responses of just "Oh god no." I welcome though any reasoning whatever for why "High Octane Nightmare Fuel" is a better name or at least an acceptable one.
To sum up, the reasons for a rename:
1) Consistency. The page functions just like like the "moment of" pages..* We must treat it like one.
2) Clarity. Snowcloning the title to Nightmare Fuel indicates a complex relationship definition that does not exist.
3) Accuracy. The elaborate name wrongly suggests some sort of notable trope. It consequently wrongly convinces editors that potholing their descriptions to the page adds something to them.
4) Search engine optimization. If you care about that sort of thing.
Reasons against:
1) "Status Quo Is God." Not an argument. The name changed just a couple years ago, and a few years means nothing compared to how long we plan for the page to exist.
2) "Thousands of wicks will then point to an incorrect name." Thousands of wicks point to an incorrect name NOW. Once we rename the page, we'll at least have something to change those wicks to. And we can change them at leisure.
3) "We should just delete the page." I agree entirely. But some people like the page.
4) "Just merge with Nightmare Fuel." Not a solution. It adds none of the benefits I listed above. The concepts aren't the same - when used correctly, they're mutually exclusive. And merging eliminates Nightmare Fuel, a phenomenon worth documenting, in favor of a general horror moment list, which we don't need at all. Nightmare Fuel is the specific phenomenon by which media, particularly media for children, unintentionally scares the audience because the creator misunderstood the viewer's mindset.
5) "The rename doesn't sufficiently distinguish itself from Nightmare Fuel." If we are compiling a list of scary moments across all media, we should not name it in relation to Nightmare Fuel, which is, if anything a subtrobe.* Rather, we must fix Nightmare Fuel directly. Though it's a pre-existing term, it's poorly named and not so universal that most people know it.
edited 4th Sep '11 1:37:37 PM by Routerie