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Kaliayev from Dorset Since: Apr, 2010
#226: Mar 31st 2011 at 7:05:08 AM

With Kinkajou here. If what I've read is accurate, the rebels are too lacking in numbers to hold their gains. At the best, without intervetion we'll see an Iraq 1991 scenario, with most places east of Benghazi having protection from Gaddafi due to the no-fly zone and becoming the new version of Iraqi Kurdistan.

Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#227: Mar 31st 2011 at 7:27:30 AM

Not just numbers; the rebels are too gung-ho and lack proper military discipline. I'd say they need training by Prussian drill instructors, but 1) those sadly don't exist anymore and 2) Germany was against the intervention.

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#228: Mar 31st 2011 at 7:31:33 AM

As I said, Militia 2011 without any land doctrine researched. cool

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#229: Mar 31st 2011 at 7:46:37 AM

Or they're land tech 17 and Gadhafi is land tech 18, thus giving him an edge on ground combat.

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#230: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:29:17 AM

Bumpity: The Glorious Revolution, which finally established parliament's supremacy over the king. Discuss.

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#231: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:33:28 AM

Some times I pity the Stuarts. That sort of behavior could have, in another time, made Charles I and James II warlords feared by all foes and kings respected by all subjects.

But as we know, time had changed.

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#232: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:43:49 AM

If they were but French monarchs, and of the same level of competence as Louis XIV, they'd do well.

Of course, they weren't, and they were rulers of a country where the nobility was powerful relative to the monarch and the Tudors were the only ruling house whose absolutism worked to any extent.

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#233: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:49:37 AM

England also had a large population of nouveau-riche, upstart business holders and bourgeoisie who had both money and power, and these guys didn't like the kings touching their hard-earnt funds in an inappropriate manner. tongue

The rest was history.

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
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#234: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:52:15 AM

In contrast, absolutist rule worked decently for France, but the groundswell of the dissatisfied classes coupled with the Enlightenment ideas led to the Revolution.

And the series of unfortunate events starting from the Seven Years War was the spark; Louis XV's observation that after his death would come the deluge was accurate.

Plus, would you put your country in the hands of a young clock-making nerd and a party girl?

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#236: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:56:40 AM

If you were a Lutheran-leaning nobleman; Edward VI's rule led to the Church of England becoming doctrinally separate from the Catholic Church.

And in that case, would you put your country in charge of an epileptic, inbred, giant-jawed man?

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#237: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:59:21 AM

If you were a Lutheran-leaning nobleman; Edward VI's rule led to the Church of England becoming doctrinally separate from the Catholic Church.

Funny that the whole business started because Henry VIII threw a hissy fit when the Pope basically said "Lolno" to his wishing to divorce his ugly, sonless woman. [lol]

And let's not get started on the Habsburg literal clusterfuck. tongue

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MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#238: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:00:33 AM

Anyone else here obsessed with the Spanish Civil War, and/or seeing parallels between it and the current civil war going on in Libya?

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#239: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:03:20 AM

Eh, I could forget about the Spanish Civil War if it isn't mentioned - in Hearts Of Iron 2, Nationalist Spain would get curbstomped into oblivion annexation within literally months after declaring independence.

But that is because many other countries supported Franco. Doubt anything like that would happen to Gaddafi now.

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
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#240: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:05:15 AM

Ugly? Catherine of Aragon was actually pretty fine looking; though it is true she didn't age well. Plus Philip the Handsome went head over heels over her sister Joanna (called the Mad because she was so Yandere, with a touch of Necromantic for him) to the point where he wanted to get hitched to her right away.

And that's in the same category as anti-Elizabethan propaganda of portraying Anne Boleyn as having six fingers on one hand and a third nipple, just as Shakespeare sucked up to her by making Richard III a hunchback.

And yeah, if anything the Great Powers are assisting the rebels, and the closest Gadhafi gets to support is Germany waffling over the issue and Russia and China going LOLNO at first.

edited 3rd Apr '11 6:06:19 AM by Kinkajou

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#241: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:08:09 AM

While we both agree that the primary reason for Henry's hissy fit is that he thirsted an heir with a penis so badly, you have to agree that Catherine was no Hot Shounen Mom. tongue

[up] Yeah, supporting Gaddafi now is going to paint a country's reputation as a rogue state for at least a few decades to come.

edited 3rd Apr '11 6:09:43 AM by ArgeusthePaladin

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#242: Apr 4th 2011 at 5:08:22 AM

Anything we can discuss, like the Ming dynasty?

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#243: Apr 4th 2011 at 5:17:10 AM

Speaking of which. At that time, am I correct to say that "France" as we know it does not yet exist, and in its place was a diverse mix of duchies surrounding a monarchic France?

I'm not quite sure I follow. Sure in the medieval ages the Kings of France had incredibly few power vis a vis their vasalls, but the Kingdom of France did exist. Its existence may not have meant much, but it existed. Same for Germany, even in the Early Modern Age after the Westphalian Peace - the existence of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation was a joke, but it existed. And in both cases there was a public conception of "France" and "Germany", anyway, so even completely without even a theoretical state (like Germany 1804-1870 for example) there would be a "France" or a "Germany".

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#244: Apr 4th 2011 at 5:23:48 AM

I'm thinking it's a proto-nationalistic view of themselves, then; didn't the University of Paris sort its students even in medieval times?

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#245: Apr 4th 2011 at 5:35:00 AM

All universities did at that time, though those "nationalities" did not greatly overlap with real ones - for the own country single regions formed own "nationalities", while far away countries where lumped together in category "nationalities". Which makes sense, of course, as there would be far more students from near than from far, so that way the groups would be of similar size. Still, for that reason it mostly were not real nationalities.

But yes... a certain sense of national identity has always existed. That 'nationalist awakening' in the 19th century was just that, well, it never really was important before. People would identify as German or French or Hungarian or Polish - and then what? It didn't matter. Religious identification, whether Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinist or Orthodox, that mattered far more. But nonetheless the national identities were for the most part already there.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#246: Apr 5th 2011 at 6:34:31 AM

Which is a phenomenon almost unique to Europe. In Asia, the national identity is much more important than whether you worship Taoist deities or yearn for Nirvana. That is, before the European arrive, at which point Christianity of whichever denomination was quickly regarded as un-nationalistic to many.

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
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#247: Apr 5th 2011 at 6:40:00 AM

European nationalism was formed long after a pan-national empire fragmented there; on the other hand, nation states were established far longer in Asia.

And contrary to popular belief, India is composed of many nations. wink

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#248: Apr 5th 2011 at 6:48:27 AM

Bah. India was the country that had for record time accepted a Mongolian ruling house as one of their own. That plus several dozen (hundreds?) languages does not an united nation make.tongue

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#249: Apr 5th 2011 at 7:31:36 AM

United India was done by the Raj, though ideally the Mughals (calling them the Moguls is too Western for my tastes) could have done it too if Aurangzeb didn't do a Philip II.

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
ArgeusthePaladin from Byzantine. Since: May, 2010
#250: Apr 5th 2011 at 7:36:12 AM

And then LOL BRITISH COLONIALISM.

I have always found it fascinating that a country almost as large as China, both territory and population-wise, could be so completely swallowed by the Brits while multiple European powers together never came close to completely colonizing China.

*Insert racist joke here*

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