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Michigan; Robbing the poor to feed the rich

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NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#176: Mar 16th 2011 at 10:53:01 PM

Yeah, I am talking about Snyder type Fiscals, who are basically Totalitarian Republicans.

tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#177: Mar 16th 2011 at 10:57:44 PM

Yeah when I hear Fiscal Conservativism I thinik Paul-type fiscals.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#178: Mar 17th 2011 at 12:39:24 AM

Residents are divided into competing constituencies (labor vs. management, developers vs. housing advocates, business vs. non-profit, black vs. white, east side vs. west, etc.).

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't true of many cities? Every city I have lived in has this to some degree or another. Omaha, NE i roughly divided int 4 sectors and our population base is rather interesting.

While Detroit may need saving from itself I don't think taking the lamb from the quick sand and throwing it to the wolf is the way to get it back to the flock. The way this thing looks structured it could and likely would be very heavily abused by those placed into the position of power.

edited 17th Mar '11 12:47:07 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#179: Mar 17th 2011 at 11:30:02 AM

^I think I just fell in love with that turn of phrase. I will employ it at the first oppurtunity to present itself.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#180: Mar 17th 2011 at 1:26:04 PM

@Tuefel: You're right, which is why I keep hoping for a popular uprising.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#181: Mar 17th 2011 at 1:38:57 PM

As long as people can functionally go about their daily lives, there won't be an uprising, because people don't want to interfere with their daily lives. The "badguys" continue to encroach more and more, but they're trying not to cross that line.

That being said, they may have made a critical blunder.

tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#182: Mar 17th 2011 at 11:09:59 PM

Yeah Jewish Citizens made that same mistake in the forties we have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#183: Mar 18th 2011 at 12:06:05 AM

Stop with the Godwinning. It is not Nazi Germany it is Michigan U.S.A. and the fight is hardly over.

edited 20th Mar '11 6:26:37 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#184: Mar 18th 2011 at 12:09:13 AM

Sorry just saying we have to draw the line somewhere or it'll be too late and we'll be screwed. I know i'm Godwinning but i'm not sure how better to put it. Admittedly i[ve spent too much time listening to Michael Badnirk.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#185: Mar 18th 2011 at 12:37:56 AM

Even though my opinion of America(ns) when it comes to matters of liberty and democracy is not very high, I think most Americans have an internal line drawn somewhere far from Nazi Germany.

For clarification: far too democratic to ever become Fascist, not the other way 'round.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#186: Mar 18th 2011 at 12:41:15 AM

Hehe there's that fallacy again America is not a Democracy the government would liketo tell us it's a Democracy because they want it to be a Democracy. It's a Republic.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#187: Mar 18th 2011 at 1:34:26 AM

Democracy: "Rule by the people, especially as a form of government; either directly or through elected representatives"

Republic: "A state where sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, rather than with a monarch or emperor; a country with no monarchy."

So a republic is one model of a democratic state.

Other forms of democracy include Socialism (as it was initially defined, not as it has usually turned out) and Parliamentary Democracy such as the US.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#188: Mar 18th 2011 at 1:38:04 AM

From Middle French democratie (French démocratie) < Medieval Latin democratia < Ancient Greek δημοκρατία (dēmokratia), from δῆμος (dēmos, “common people”) + κράτος (kratos, “rule, strength”).

Allowing the strong or the majority to rule over the weak or minority.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#189: Mar 18th 2011 at 1:44:54 AM

Where did you get that? The usual definition certainly is "rule of the people" so any state that has regular, free Parliamentary (and usually Presidential and other) elections where the people elected actually get the position and have actual power is a democracy.

Words like "democracy", "republic" and "dictatorship" are not always exclusive.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#190: Mar 18th 2011 at 1:51:13 AM

[up][up]Well, Plato was against democracy for this reason, calling it "tyranny of the most numerous".

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#191: Mar 18th 2011 at 1:53:30 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42Ez46vJ_8

This video puts good explanation.

At any rate can we get back on topic this is about the bullshit goingo n in Michigan not about what the country is. if you want to discuss further we should create a new topic.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#192: Mar 18th 2011 at 5:56:01 AM

Point 1: Yep, it's about Michigan.

Point 2: Godwin's Lawwing, but then getting out having to actually rationally justify said Godwinning because it's an OTC is in really poor taste.

tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#193: Mar 18th 2011 at 5:58:39 AM

Very sorry about that I was just looking at how the other two topics got locked and I didn't want to drive this one further.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#194: Mar 18th 2011 at 10:35:52 AM

I'm in Wisconsin, but still think this law is a bit too drastic. You have my support.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#195: Mar 18th 2011 at 10:41:04 AM

At least people ARE protesting, so its something.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#196: Mar 18th 2011 at 10:42:45 AM

I kind of want to go, but I'm in the middle of trying to get a job at Compuware. If that doesn't go anywhere, I'll probably have to move in with my Mom sometime next month (Bleck), in which case I might as well spend some time in the capitol.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#197: Mar 18th 2011 at 10:46:32 AM

Something else to bear in mind is that Michigan already had a financial emergency management law on the books for some time. As I said, the Detroit Public School system is being run by a financial manager. That said, the difference are the added powers, including the power to dismiss elected officials and disincorporate towns and localities. That said, another thing to bear in mind is that all state legislatures have that power in the US. Local governments are not sovereign in the US.

There's already pushback: http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/politics/lansing-march-17

More people seem concerned about canceling the union contracts than anything else. What happens next will depend upon how these new powers are used. There wont be any civil suits filed until a emergency financial manager actually tries to do any of these things. Then it will likely end up in court, for a protracted legal battle. How it will eventually play out is anyone's guess.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#198: Mar 20th 2011 at 5:18:32 PM

A friend/coworker of mine (who is normally fairly liberal) voted for Snyder because he thought the Democratic candidate was useless. He now calls it the most ill-advised vote he's ever made.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#199: Mar 20th 2011 at 6:28:05 PM

I am not worried about the unions I am worried about the massive power grab that the act is. I am glad there is pushback to this mess.

Who watches the watchmen?
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#200: Mar 20th 2011 at 7:09:52 PM

Well, there is the rub. The democrat running against Snyder was basically a union shill, promising to bring manufacturing jobs back to Michigan. Right. So we voters basically had a dilemma, and I really cant blame anyone who ended up deciding Snyder might have been the lesser of two evils.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.

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