TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Michigan; Robbing the poor to feed the rich

Go To

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#126: Mar 15th 2011 at 12:37:26 AM

Theres nothing wrong with the concept of corporations.

Its just like anything that becomes too big and powerful, it becomes extremely vulnerable to rampant corruption.

EricDVH Since: Jan, 2001
#127: Mar 15th 2011 at 12:45:15 AM

There is one rather obvious thing wrong with corporations compared to our government, which is that the only people allowed to vote are certain stockholders, while the employees and customers are basically the equivalent of peons under an old fashioned oligarchy. The closest thing to the American government in the business sphere would be a cooperative.

Eric,

HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#128: Mar 15th 2011 at 5:00:49 AM

And let's point that the video was slightly alarmist. People here have looked at the bill, and while it's nasty, there are criteria to be met before the governor can decide to dissolve a township. And corporations can't be put directly in charge of an insolvent city, but they can be contracted and consulted with by the appointed managers.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
Ratix from Someplace, Maryland Since: Sep, 2010
#129: Mar 15th 2011 at 9:44:06 AM

[up] It may not be as directly alarming as the video made out, but the fact that it is more incipient may actually be worse in the long run. Given the criteria, it's a real possibility this will be the end of Detroit as we know it. By that time it might be too late to change things.

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#130: Mar 15th 2011 at 9:57:40 AM

[up] Let's be honest, now. Is Detroit as we know it a great place?

Maybe if there's a period of absolutely horrible government, reforms will come. God knows Detroit needs them.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#131: Mar 15th 2011 at 9:59:32 AM

Because the solutionis always obviously more government and bigger government.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#132: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:02:53 AM

Do you have anything to say that isn't a straw man?

Because I'm not even touching this.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
RichReeders Official Muffin Watcher from Watching this muffin. Since: Feb, 2011
Official Muffin Watcher
#133: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:03:19 AM

It will become like France before the French Revolution.

To be fair, nobody has ever liked France, so...

edited 15th Mar '11 10:03:28 AM by RichReeders

Don't you try anything, you baked good you.
inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#134: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:05:16 AM

Relevant.

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#135: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:06:43 AM

Did you know, I acted in a version of that?

You're missing part of it, though.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#136: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:09:39 AM

France had prior revolutions (the Fronde I & II), which were power struggles between the nobles and the monarchy, both of which were dicks. The people had the option of supporting feudalism or being overtaxed into poverty.

It's funny how installing representative government is like trying to tip over a soda machine. It takes a few shoves. The French failed to revolt three times, but once Napoleon was overthrown they finally ushered in a republic.

I don't really see the parallel with France in the U.S. since we don't live under a king. We haven't seen an oligarchical setup like this since Rome, or maybe Venice under the Medicis.

edited 15th Mar '11 10:11:33 AM by johnnyfog

I'm a skeptical squirrel
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#137: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:37:11 AM

Another thing worth noticing is that Rick Snyder is cutting a CRAP LOAD of public services, you know, the non essential ones like schools and police and firefighters and aid to the homeless (which we have alot of).

Also the tax breaks for the movie industry we were trying to attract, which is pretty much gone now thanks to Rick Snyder.

But hey, tax breaks for other businesses! Woo! That will somehow fix EVERYTHING!

Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#138: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:38:54 AM

Tax breaks for the movie industry aren't all that productive, and all kinds of places offer them now. I'd ditch that one in a heartbeat. If we need to encourage industry, better to do it even-handedly than pick glamorous favorites.

A brighter future for a darker age.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#139: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:44:37 AM

Maybe Im bias because the field I'm going into would be usable by that industry.

Still, it sounds like a huge waste to start working on it and making studios and such and then suddenly go "NOPE USELESS"

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#140: Mar 15th 2011 at 10:45:14 AM

Yeah, the only thing Michigan has to offer is derelict ghost towns for filming apocalypse movies.

Plenty of other states are already trying to woo the movie industry (IIRC, Louisanna started it).

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
rjung He's just some guy, you know? from Fifth and Main (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
He's just some guy, you know?
#141: Mar 15th 2011 at 11:35:57 AM

Because the solution is always obviously more government and bigger government.
We've spent the last 30 years with the assumption that the solution to everything is deregulation and free markets; that's why we're in our current mess now.

Let's try something that WORKS this time.

—R.J.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#142: Mar 15th 2011 at 12:53:20 PM

And to think I just moved back to Michigan.

HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#143: Mar 15th 2011 at 2:16:11 PM

@johnnyfrog: And how long did that republic last? The one after that? And the one after that?

But yeah, it's sort of a dick move how he premeptively cut all sorts of funding keeping these places afloat than gave ludicrous tax cuts, all with the seeming intent of turning the state into his own corporate empire.

I understand that in theory this will allow him to more efficently handle the situation, but some times the principles in the way of efficency are there for a reason, and too precious to give up.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
Usht Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard from an arbitrary view point. Since: Feb, 2011
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
#144: Mar 15th 2011 at 2:21:16 PM

Question for all of you guys:

Assume this guy does get this position without the Supreme Court stepping all over him, what if he manages to pull Detroit and such out of the gutter and make it economically prosperous? No, I don't want to know if you think he'd be corrupt or tyrannical, I just want to know what you'd think if he managed to, with increased efficiency and business know how, cleaned up the economy in that state.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#145: Mar 15th 2011 at 2:40:36 PM

I'd say that was great, but the price paid didn't really justify the means in my opinion.

Although it's worth pointing out: Town governments exist at the pleasure of the state, it can dissolve and form municipalities at will. They can't touch the voting districts, but they can do whatever they want with the towns, legally speaking.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#146: Mar 15th 2011 at 2:47:22 PM

Still, it sounds like a huge waste to start working on it and making studios and such and then suddenly go "NOPE USELESS"

This is called cutting your loses.

Fight smart, not fair.
EricDVH Since: Jan, 2001
#147: Mar 15th 2011 at 3:42:55 PM

@Usht: It would provide propaganda ammunition for others to do the same, causing a nationwide erosion of voter rights as power is concentrated among unelected officials and large private corporations. Not to be too alarmist, but healthy economy or not, that sort of thing has never turned out well in the long run.

Eric,

Usht Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard from an arbitrary view point. Since: Feb, 2011
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
#148: Mar 15th 2011 at 3:46:32 PM

Slippery Slope Fallacy. Just because it catches on somewhere doesn't mean it'll catch on everywhere. Else, we wouldn't be having different states have different opinions on the death penalty, and plus, I'm asking if your opinion of it would be the same, not what would happen.

Okay, so the question was poorly worded.

edited 15th Mar '11 3:47:37 PM by Usht

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#149: Mar 15th 2011 at 3:51:11 PM

@ tnu: All I will say is that, in this case, if bigger government works, then it will be used. The ends justify the means.

Otherwise, I say that this is a dangerous first step into totalitarianism and a splitting of ground for the Republican Party. Now we have the Totalitarian-Oligarchy Republican Party, the despicable Tea Party, the moderate Republicans, and the Evangelical Republican Party. This is certainly getting good. Lets hope the split happens officially. Then not a single wing nut will ever reach the Presidency.

EricDVH Since: Jan, 2001
#150: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:21:20 PM

Ah, my personal opinion would be one of apprehension and fear. No matter what actually happened, more power concentrated away from voters (even if it wasn't used) would make me perpetually anxious over the increased danger of Bad Things happening. This atmosphere of alarmism would probably be common on the left.

Eric,


Total posts: 292
Top