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Narm vs. So Bad It's Good

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neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#1: Mar 9th 2011 at 8:16:48 AM

Narm

So Bad, It's Good

These seem to be fundamentally similar concepts; each involves works that failed to be dramatic, but ended up having comedic value instead. What exactly is the distinction between the two?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2: Mar 9th 2011 at 8:46:56 AM

Narm applies to individual moments and is not a case of "so bad it becomes good" but "so bad it's unintentionally hilarious". So Bad It's Good applies to entire works.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#3: Mar 9th 2011 at 9:24:20 AM

[up] So narm is a kind of moment, and So Bad, It's Good is when something is comprised primarily of that kind of moment? If so, what "unit" of a work would we be referring to "most" of? An episode of a TV show? An installment of a movie series? An issue of a comic book? (I recently used Marten Sspema's "eat the poo poo" rant as a real-life example of narm, but recently I've been wondering if it's more fitting to So Bad, It's Good.)

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4: Mar 9th 2011 at 9:29:36 AM

So Bad, It's Good is applied to an entire work. It can occur for any number of reasons, Narm being merely one.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rotpar Always 3:00 am in the Filth (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Always 3:00 am in the Filth
#5: Mar 9th 2011 at 10:41:41 AM

See Plan 9 From Outer Space for one of the best examples of So Bad, It's Good. There is plenty of Narm in the movie ("Your stupid minds! Stupid! STUPID!") but it's SBIG for many reasons, such as:

  • Fake Shemp: The late Bela Lugosi "stars" in the movie, via stock footage, and is replaced by an obvious fake covering his face with a cape.
  • Juggling Loaded Guns: The actor playing a cop waves his gun like a maniac and points it at everyone, intentionally to see if the director would stop him.
  • Special Effect Failure: Cardboard headstones that wobble and fall over, UFOs on visible strings that cast shadows in space.

edited 9th Mar '11 10:42:18 AM by Rotpar

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nuclearneo Nuclearneo577's puppet from Not my main computer. Since: Feb, 2011
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#6: Mar 9th 2011 at 11:20:57 AM

Narm is often present is something that is So Bad, It's Good.

edited 9th Mar '11 11:21:24 AM by nuclearneo

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#7: Mar 10th 2011 at 1:04:22 PM

[up] How are those "other" forms of SBIG different from narm then?

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Lost in Space
#8: Mar 10th 2011 at 1:08:14 PM

How is any trope different from any other? You're vastly overgeneralizing Narm, Neo.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#9: Mar 10th 2011 at 1:18:15 PM

[up] The idea is that narm is moments of unintentional comedy. Unless narm is supposed to be more specific than that, what else is good about shows that are so bad they're good apart from unintentional comedy?

DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#10: Mar 10th 2011 at 1:29:19 PM

Narm and So Bad, It's Good don't necessarily overlap. Some instances of Narm are indeed considered So Bad, It's Good, but it is far more common for it to be hated by the viewers.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#11: Mar 10th 2011 at 1:34:18 PM

Narm is where something intended to be dramatic is ridiculous instead. The ridiculousness may be funny enough to push it into So Bad, It's Good territory, or it may not. So Bad, It's Good is for those works that fail so spectacularly in whatever they try to achieve - be it action, drama, comedy, or whatever - that they become hugely enjoyable to watch. The two tropes are not synonymous, though frequent, particularly amusing Narm can do a lot to push a work into So Bad, It's Good territory.

edited 10th Mar '11 1:35:11 PM by Iaculus

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neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#12: Mar 10th 2011 at 2:36:26 PM

... well, that's a better distinction, then. So narm could be considered sometimes-but-not-always the cause, and So Bad, It's Good sometimes-but-not-always the effect?

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Lost in Space
#13: Mar 10th 2011 at 2:37:40 PM

Narm is about individual events in the work. So Bad It's Good is about the work as a whole. Narm may be a cause of SBIG, but so may several other tropes, and not everything that contains Narm is SBIG.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#14: Mar 10th 2011 at 3:58:59 PM

... I see then.

In any case, that narm does not imply SBIG is more than enough of a distinction, so I guess this thread is done then. o.o

rocknrollchick RELEASE THE KITTIES! from discworld Since: Sep, 2010
RELEASE THE KITTIES!
#15: Mar 12th 2011 at 12:33:45 PM

@ Iaculus

So if drama fails, and you're embarrassed by it instead of amused, it still counts as Narm?

edited 12th Mar '11 12:34:34 PM by rocknrollchick

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SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
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#16: Mar 13th 2011 at 12:26:39 PM

I'd say yes. That you felt that way is merely your reaction.

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Judecca Since: Dec, 2010
#17: Mar 23rd 2011 at 7:25:54 PM

Narm = Certain moments/themes in the work.

So Bad, It's Good = The entire work.

edited 23rd Mar '11 7:26:06 PM by Judecca

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PDown It's easy, mmkay? Since: Jan, 2012
It's easy, mmkay?
#18: Mar 23rd 2011 at 7:30:30 PM

^That's not true, see the earlier distinctions made in this thread.

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