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So I'm curious with this Nakama scandal

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Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#1: Mar 8th 2011 at 2:03:27 AM

It seems to be a hot topic, at least according to Tropers Law. I've made passing comments about it, but I didn't know it was apparently serious.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2: Mar 8th 2011 at 6:23:29 AM

Nakama is the "third rail" of TV Tropes politics. The debate is so polarized that it's impossible to come to any sort of objective conclusion. Technically, the term violates almost all of our naming rules: it's not indicative, the original Japanese term does not mean what we're using it to mean, it's not a concept central or even original to anime, and it's fanspeak. However, it's as popular as Xanatos Gambit, so it's staying.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#3: Mar 8th 2011 at 6:30:19 AM

On the list of things I would do if I could go back in time is smack the translator of that One Piece fansubbing group for starting this whole thing.

Rotpar Always 3:00 am in the Filth (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Always 3:00 am in the Filth
#4: Mar 8th 2011 at 11:04:51 AM

What I know comes from other sites. A very vocal portion of the One Piece community latched onto the aforementioned fansub and decided that "nakama" was impossible to translate, full of more depth and meaning then the English language is capable of.

Internet debates ensued.

By the time I started participating on TV Tropes it was already a "DON'T LIKE IT FUCK YOU AND LEAVE" situation.

But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you.
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#5: Mar 8th 2011 at 11:27:06 AM

Ahh so it's essentially the Anime Trope equivalent of Xanatos Gambit in terms of full protection from Grandfather Clause.

edited 8th Mar '11 11:27:24 AM by Ookamikun

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Mar 8th 2011 at 11:39:17 AM

Not really Grandfather Clause. More "defended by ravening hordes of screaming fans who will not allow a civil discussion".

Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#7: Mar 8th 2011 at 11:48:33 AM

[up] That's not really fair to those of us who defend it for performance reasons. Nor does it take into account the fact that many on the pro-rename side were equally un-civil.

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Cutmaster-san
#8: Mar 8th 2011 at 11:54:50 AM

The progress of the thread so far should make it clear why even the mention of Nakama in a TRS/Wiki Talk thread can bring in a moderator threateningly brandishing a banhammer—for a thread discussing the Nakama issue, this has been almost disconcertingly civil.

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Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Mar 8th 2011 at 12:15:52 PM

Meeble, I didn't say that those were the only people defending it. Those were the people who managed to get it declared "don't even bring this up." And yes, there were people on the 'rename' side who were also uncivil.

edited 8th Mar '11 12:17:08 PM by Madrugada

Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#10: Mar 8th 2011 at 12:42:41 PM

Fair enough, I apologize for reading too much into your post.

My opinion on the controversy is that Nakama was smack in the middle of three different (yet at times over-lapping) ideological debates at the time: the pro-foreign titles vs. anti-foreign titles debate, the FORKS vs. SPOONS debate, and the Performance vs. Clarity debate.

With so many competing viewpoints, it was hard for individual voices to be heard, and the strife at the time over whether or not TV Tropes was becoming too "anime-centric" helped polarize positions even further. This all led to fast post counts, mega-posts where people where arguing with posters from 5 pages back, and high tempers in general.

Thankfully a lot of those stress factors have died down since then, but I suppose it's still a sore spot for some (as evidenced by the tendency of threads where it's mentioned to go to hell so quickly.)

edited 8th Mar '11 12:50:51 PM by Meeble

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CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#11: Mar 8th 2011 at 4:48:38 PM

On a side note, one of my proudest moments on TV Tropes was when I got Nakama added to Tropers' Law by first writing its equivalent of Godwin's Law in one of the many threads on it! (this was under my previous handle of Addy The Pawn Slayer, though). evil grin

Considering that people have been permanently sitebanned for the fervency of their stance on the issue, and the things they've been prepared to do in support of it, it's really a case of N-Word Privileges of another kind by now.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
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#12: Mar 8th 2011 at 7:47:41 PM

I must admit a bit of curiosity. As mentioned, at the time the rename was proposed, it turned into the brouhaha it did. But times change, and Troper Demographs have certainly changed now. We've certainly "cleaned up our act," so to say. (For the better, in my opinion.) Things that were debated then are considered near-policy (In as much as we have policy) now.

So, part of me wonders if there'd be a better possibility of renaming this trope now. Honestly, most of the time when it's brought up, I don't see people saying "Don't rename it, it's a good term." Most people say "It's a disaster waiting to go off." Yet I still read an undertone of "We'd change it if we could." Makes me wonder, do we have the support to change it?

That being said, I sure as hell don't want to dive in the waters to see if the sharks aren't there anymore. Best leave it for now.

Don't take life too seriously. It's only a temporary situation.
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