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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#3476: Jan 3rd 2023 at 2:27:08 AM

[up] The weird thing about Father is that he seemed to have a lot more personality as the Dwarf in the Flask (not even just during flashbacks, I loved the tantrum he throws at the Truth at the end as well). Which I guess might have something to do with him removing the sins from his body.

Edited by GNinja on Jan 3rd 2023 at 10:27:40 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3477: Jan 3rd 2023 at 6:22:56 PM

[up]He had more personality, but what I'm arguing is that it feels as if Father never had any definitive non-evil traits that couldn't be ruled out as a deception. Again, he comes off as though he was 100% evil since creation, so I feel the only reason the homunculi have any percentage of good in them is because they got it from the souls in their homunculus stone

[down]As mentioned I read that as Hohenheim getting it by accident because he was in the same place as Father, not something Father intended him to get

Edited by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 on Jan 4th 2023 at 6:47:11 AM

lycropath Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#3478: Jan 3rd 2023 at 6:54:31 PM

Well there was a bit of compassion for Hoenheim who he shared the souls of Xerxes with out of gratitude for his friendship and sharing blood.

Its just that that part probably is what became Greed.

Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#3479: Jan 8th 2023 at 9:35:16 AM

[up][up] If Hohenheim being spared was an accident then Father would of just immediately beat him and absorb his half of the souls.

I understand finding Father a boring antagonist but this feels like you’re just ignoring any deeper traits he might have

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#3480: Jan 8th 2023 at 9:55:35 AM

It’s also an odd bit of speculation to tie good traits solely to the other humans absorbed because I do not recall any influence of those souls being attributed to Father or even the suggestion that the souls could do that. It certainly didn’t manifest like that with Hohen.

Greed is Father’s Greed and he’s never been suggested to originate from anybody else.

It also seems like a weak point to say that moments where Father congratulates Hohen for also becoming immortal as “deception”. To say it’s a deception, you’d have to actually argue on how it couldn’t be true.

As far as interpretations go, to me at least, it doesn’t seem like a very interesting one.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3481: Jan 8th 2023 at 4:04:26 PM

Alright. I do find Father rather underdeveloped but you've made your point he does have some Hidden Depths

IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#3482: May 3rd 2023 at 2:05:08 AM

Does anybody else love Scar? I don't see a lot of fan content about him.

I recently read Sons of the Desert, a fic about Scar and Miles' mission to rebuild Ishval after the Promised Day. The author explored Ishvalan culture, history, and mythology in a similar manner to what Nahoko Uehashi did in the Moribito series and The Beast Player, and none of the OCs felt out of place. Scar's situation in Ishval, especially with how several people refer to him by his real name, reminded me of Balsa's journey to her home of Kanbal in Moribito II: Guardian of the Darkness.

I like Scar's relationships with a troubled Ishvalan pair of mother and daughter named Rada and Danika: the way Scar told a lie to convince Rada to stay with his relatives when she was withdrawn, the way Scar and Rada bonded over their traumatic experiences since the war of extermination, the way Scar confessed to Mustang that he did not have the resolve to never let his bloody past get between him and his wife like Hughes, and the way Scar and Danika became father and daughter. I also liked how Scar used his alchemy to rediscover a river that disappeared during an ancient earthquake.

But for some reason, I couldn't read the fic thoroughly from the start to the end as I did with Noapte Strigoiului, a Touhou Project fic I read with zero knowledge of the source material. This story of Remilia and Flandre as young daughters of Vlad the Impaler was a tragedy through and through but I immensely enjoyed the story in the author's prose and the negative portrayal of Vlad and Ilona Szilágyi mysteriously didn't bother me even though I hated the portrayal of Vlad in Rise of Empires: Ottoman. As for Sons of the Desert, I couldn't easily absorb what was written as much as I did with Moribito, The Beast Player, and Noapte Strigoiului and I ended up skipping several chapters and scenes without Scar.

I wish the author had explored the romance between Scar and Rada more thoroughly because sometimes the development felt sudden. The fic touched on Scar's unrequited feelings for Rada before the war of extermination and how that conflicted with his policy of chastitynote . In fact, Scar's brother stated in his note that Scar "seriously needs to get laid" - yes, the fic contained that sentence - after rightly expressing worry about Scar's "hot-headed and close-minded" nature. Zulema, an old female relative of Miles', also pitied Scar's parents for dying in the war without having grandchildren because "[Scar] renounced worldly things, [Scar's brother] had his nose in a book day and night".

If the author had explored the process of the romance between Scar and Rada, it would've felt like that between Elin and Ialu in the short story collection of The Beast Player. Scar and Ialu both happened to be seasoned warriors and killers of high status (Scar used to be a Warrior Monk and Ialu was a particularly efficient member of the royal guard) and Ialu was shown to have visions of those he had killed both while awake and in dreams. However, the fic had a time skip from the wedding of Scar and Rada to Rada giving birth to twins if I remember correctly. I get why Scar would name the boy after his deceased brother, but it puzzles me how nobody objected to naming the girl after Winry as if neither Scar nor Rada had any female relatives (deceased or living).

On a minor, related note, I appreciated Mustang's reaction to Scar's marriage. Mustang wanted to tell Ed too for his amusement but held back because he didn't want to upset Ed. Mustang was the only one to express shock at Scar's marriage as far as I remember, but still.

Edited by IukaSylvie on May 3rd 2023 at 7:35:30 PM

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#3483: May 3rd 2023 at 3:11:27 PM

Man, I went back reading this thread since it got bumped and I'd just recently rewatched the 2003 anime. Neat seeing that there are actually quite a few people who prefer 2003 to Brotherhood. I thought I was one of the only ones.

Like Brotherhood has a lot of good stuff, Olivier and Greedling are great, but man I just find most of the villains suck in Brotherhood. I do not get the love for Brotherhood Kimblee and Father is an absolute goddamn generic bore compared to the horrific plot of Dante just doing what she does because she's a sadistic, selfish Misanthrope Supreme of a woman.

I dunno. Brotherhood is still excellent, but I think it has a lot more flaws than people give it credit for and 2003 has a lot more merits.

Oissu!
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#3484: May 3rd 2023 at 3:15:13 PM

People like Brotherhood Kimblee mainly because he sticks to his metaphorical guns and will also hold you up with those guns and blow you up if you don't, and maybe still blow you up if you do, but at least he'll still respect you more.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#3485: May 3rd 2023 at 3:44:18 PM

Yep, he's blue and orange morality that believes in only fighting for the strongest side, he's a terrible terrible individual but a fantastic character due to his "Stick to your morals" methods.

He protected Armstrong when he could no longer fight, and respected him for not wanting to kill an innocent family... and then proceeded to do it for him so he wouldn't be reprimanded. Like I said, terrible terrible person.

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3486: May 3rd 2023 at 4:57:47 PM

Ironically despite my efforts It seems I dont enjoy either show and I am not a manga person so that's that for me. I do love Bratja and listen to it a lot and the same goes for most of the Brotherhood openings. I did actually finish 2003 but couldnt keep up with Brotherhood, I know there is a new dub for Brotherhood and I am a major dub person so I might try again now.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#3488: May 3rd 2023 at 6:33:00 PM

I think Father is pretty interesting. He is generic on paper but in practice they add a lot more depth then you expect...He is pure evil, but not naturally. Deep down he does desire human things like a family and you can analyze that with his fragmented Homunculi. And he did once care for Hoenheim. He is just so egotistical that he rejects anything human within him.

He is almost like a Decon-Recon Switch of the concept of a pure evil villain to me.

Bow to the Prototype
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#3489: May 3rd 2023 at 6:40:13 PM

Sort of how he literally tears out his more humanizing aspects to make minions to serve his goals, and in the process becomes a thing carried by inertia more than drive.

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3490: May 3rd 2023 at 6:54:49 PM

I live in Latin America, Silence.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#3491: May 3rd 2023 at 8:15:02 PM

I do love Scar... 2003!Scar. I find him immensely compelling and sort of like a Magneto/Killmonger type character... but one the narrative is more sympathetic towards. Whereas those characters are like they have a point but there methods are wrong! (albeit definitely justified in Killmongers case), with 2003!Scar it's more like "Are his methods wrong?" Well in the end, he's dead and the Elric have to live with his decision.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#3492: May 4th 2023 at 1:19:05 AM

I honestly prefer Scar's ending in the manga and Brotherhood because I think death would be too merciful a fate for someone like him

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3493: May 4th 2023 at 1:35:27 AM

Was Scar a horrible person? I dont know.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#3494: May 4th 2023 at 1:39:22 AM

I just meant to say Scar would suffer more if he lived

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3495: May 4th 2023 at 1:43:23 AM

I meant that if he is such a horrible person to deserve that? I dont know him at all so I will trust you.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#3496: May 4th 2023 at 1:51:38 AM

I never said Scar was a horrible person. I said he would suffer more alive because of his immense sense of guilt

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3497: May 4th 2023 at 1:53:42 AM

OMG I am sorry I dont know why I keep misreading stuff. I know it sounds weird but lately my mind makes fanfiction out of what I read in text.

EDIT: This is your post.

I honestly prefer Scar's ending in the manga and Brotherhood because I think death would be too merciful a fate for someone like him.

Sooooooo... could you explain this a bit further? I am not getting it. I mean why do you say that death would be too merciful if you dont want him to die?

Edited by AegisP on May 4th 2023 at 1:57:53 AM

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#3498: May 4th 2023 at 2:06:50 AM

I just thought living with an immense sense of guilt was a better punishment for someone like Scar

Isn't that enough as an explanation?

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3499: May 4th 2023 at 2:07:46 AM

But why would you want that for him? Did he do something so awful you dont even want him dying to get out of it?

Edited by AegisP on May 4th 2023 at 2:08:58 AM

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#3500: May 4th 2023 at 2:10:34 AM

I prefer Scar's ending in the manga and Brotherhood because he's tasked with rebuilding his homeland alongside Miles; the final panel of the manga shows him in priestly clothing.


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