I think I've finally pinned down why I like the original anime more.
I think it's because of... mostly, the ending. This is going to sound really weird, but the ending for Brotherhood felt too... perfect of an ending? Not in quality but... ughhh, it's hard to explain why brain why
Another reason would be of how personal of a story it is to the Elric brothers. Honestly, I don't really give a damn for any of the other characters, but them. Mostly because I identify heavily with Ed, since I am the oldest brother to my own two little brothers.
To the complaint of Ed sacrificing himself for Al: I don't really see the problem with that? I know that's what I'd do if I was in that situation. There would be no way in Hell I'd just let my brother be taken away like that while I was still alive; prior promises and lessons be damned.
The ending was far more of a cynical one. Though I liken myself to being an optimist sometimes, I know truly that I have more of a cynical view on things. Probably why this ending appeals most to me.
And really, the ending to Brotherhood felt too... just, the Homunculus didn't feel threatening enough. I mean, they didn't feel threatening in the first adaptation either, but it's more of a problem here due to this ending being more climactic than the other one.
Especially Father. I did not really like him all that much.
I don't know. I need to think on this more. It really is an interesting subject. No matter what though, I cannot agree with anyone who says the first anime sucked. You are a liar and you have horrible taste; joking, you can have your own opinion! I'm just going to hate you for it...
edited 12th Jul '12 12:33:23 AM by cutewithoutthe
![]()
I don't see how anime Ed is stagnant.
In the beginning of the series, he's very ... I don't want to say "selfish"; let's say self-centered. He's almost solely focused on his own goals, without giving much thought to how he affects the world around him. Sure, if you show him someone in trouble, he'll leap to their rescue without even thinking about it, but helping people was never really his mission, and the people he does help he tends to forget about after they've left his sight. He never checks on how Lior's been doing since Cornello was exposed, or how Dr. Marcoh's faring in the Fuhrer's custody; heck, he never even writes Winry a letter or calls her on the phone the entire time he's traveling. For Ed, the world seems to consist of just himself, his brother, and whatever situation they're in at the moment.
That changes a lot by the end of the series. Things early-series Ed brushed aside as not his problem, late-series Ed sees as his personal responsibility. Early-series Ed becomes a "dog of the military" with reckless zeal, while late-series Ed is much more aware about what that label means. And where early-series Ed tries to keep moving ahead on his journey without looking back, late-series Ed is more reflective and prone to revisiting people and places he's seen before.
For an example, just look at the two times Ed visits Lior. The first time, he comes because he wants to steal a Philosopher's Stone for himself, doing some good mostly as a side-effect, and, when he leaves, brushes aside Rose's concerns that he may have made things worse, essentially telling her, "That's your problem. Learn to deal with it." The second time, he comes because he wants to stop Scar from killing a lot of people; doing good is his main goal this time around. And when all the Liorians have been led away from danger, instead of going "My work here is done" and being on his way, he heads back to Lior because he knows it's not as simple as leaving people to their own devices, that he has more work to do if he wants to protect them in the long run.
While Ed never stops being stubborn, quick to anger, and unhealthily obsessed with his brother, by the end of the series he's become a much more thoughtful and responsible person than he was at the beginning.
P.S. I prefer Dante to Father. Well, I prefer her to how Father usually is. He was a lot of fun when he was in the Flask or when he had Greed inside him, but in his normal, cast-all-emotions-aside state, he's just kind of a generic Evil Overlord who's after ultimate power.
What I liked about Dante was that, while she's a thoroughly despicable human being, she's also a thoroughly human human being. She doesnt want to die, even if living means screwing over a lot of other people, and she uses philosophy to convince herself that, not only does she deserve to screw these people over, but that the world is a better place because of it. She may be a Body Surfing alchemist, but Dante is a very believable villain in a way Father was not. I guess the Central generals in the manga were similar to her in that respect, but they were a bit too buffoonish to take seriously.
That said, given the story the manga and Brotherhood anime were telling, Father was absolutely the better villain for them to use. The manga storyline is an action/adventure epic about the triumph of the human spirit, so it needs an inhuman, seemingly unbeatable adversary for the heroes to persevere against. However, the anime tells a more personal story where the goodness of humanity is often in doubt, so a Big Bad whose villainy was much more human in nature is called for.
Ed's world went from consisting of him and his brother to Him alone and then him and his brother again. He is still just as selfish at the end. He never thinks about the consequences of his actions, which always results in the people around him worrying even more. Taking on those things was just as selfish, as he just continues to make the people who care about him worry, and never telling them what's wrong even though it involves them, and they are the only ones who can do something about it, because he thinks its his duty and he alone can do it. That's still selfishness, he moved from one selfish behavior to another. For comparison's sake the ending of Brotherhood happened because Ed had grown up and lost that childish ego of his that he never did in 2003 adaptation. He just acts up and expects people to not question him and just fall in line.
That's not any better than how he was at the beginning of the series, actually I'd liken to say that's worse.
![]()
![]()
![]()
Rose was not an extra that would imply she got like maybe two lines of dialouge and left no impact. My point was that Rose went through so much shit with Ed and Al present that they have a reasonto attach to her. Remember from the brothers point of veiw it hasn't been that long since they first met her. I never said Scheska wasn't sweet and I like her alot. Also, like I pointed out earlier, noone made a big deal about Lyra, and her purpose in the plot was pretty much to eventually become Dante's vessel and that's something you should at least take note of, which they do, then it's over.
On Ed's case, I never said pessimsm or cynicsm made Ed mature. As a matter of fact I spent a whole paragraph on how he was the more immature brother. Neither did I say Angst = Character Development, but the fact is Ed had both, often at the same time. He went from Thou Shall Not Kill to It Gets Easier, went from pessimsm to some amount of idealism, lost his Hair-Trigger Temper for the most part, and is more willing to Self Sacrifice. If Al never becomes his own character how did you just list all of those character traits, that are in no way dependent on Ed. Yes I went over how childish Al can be, but I ALSO went over all the positive and mature things he has going for him that Ed doesn't have. He's not vengeful like Ed, he's trusting (a bit too much so at times eah, but if Al was less willing to make compromises, like Ed, alot of situations would've ended worse for both of them.
I dont agree that either Al was ever in Ed's shadow. Yeah Ed was more popular in-universe, but he had the whole "state alchemist champion of the people thing" going. Al contirbutes just as much as Ed in any given situation, and you make it sound like every time either of them did something everyone was all over Ed and Al just sort of stood there and that is simply not true.
"Al went from a young boy who was always behind his older brother's shadow to a young man who could stand on his own as an equal and also markedly different from his brother, becoming his own character/ person in the process" How? No seriously how? e was ALREADY his own character. Sure he matured a little bit but the only thing thqat makes 2003 Al slightly less than Ed's equal is the alchemy, but even that's not a big deal. Neither Al was immature. Naive at points, yeah, but that is not the same thing. And how is 2003 Al not compassionate?
Age has nothing to do with maturity and idealism and you know that. Ed is a cynic and Al is an innocent idealist because that's just the kind of people they are. Al could several years older than Ed and act the same way, and I'd have no issue with it because it's his character.
The world doesn't revolve around them, if it did, there wouldn't be a single scene without one of them being seen or mentioned. Brotherhood just seems like more of an ensemble and yes, I DID forget who they main character was supposed to be on a couple of occasion. I dont hold that against the series I just found it jarring.
Um, that's not selfishness. Stubborness and maybe idiocy, yeah, but not selfishness. Wht part of the Brotherhood ending resulted from Ed growing up? He was forced into a situation with several others and it was quite literally impossible for him to do it alone.
"he just continues to make the people who care about him worry, and never telling them what's wrong even though it involves them" Examples? Usually when Ed keeps a secret it doesn't involve the people he's keeping it from at least not directly. He keeps what happened at lab 5 a secret from Winry and Hughes, yeah but in my mind Winry had no right to know, and finding out more than he should have is what got Hughes killed. Armstrong even makes it a point that Ed is protecting them from what he veiws as his own problems. And what reason does he have not to think that?
edited 12th Jul '12 6:23:10 AM by polooglu
Basically, watch the first 25 episodes of the first anime, and then go to Brotherhood.
If you want any of my avatars, just Pm me I'd truly appreciate any avatar of a reptile sleeping in a Nice Hat Read Elmer Kelton books
No. The original's depiction of the beginning parts of the manga has way a few major discrepancies than what's portrayed in the source material and Brotherhood. I'm sure someone more in-tune with FMA can fill you in on the details.
Some people stitch it together in their heads.
But if you're picking one to watch first, watch the one you think you will like the best first. And hopefully it will be the one you like the best.
I watched Brotherhood first and I'm glad I did since I feel I wasn't comparing continuities throughout all the episodes.
I think people thinking of watching one or the other should ask someone who has watched both which version they would most likely like.
I watched the 2003 first as a total newcomer, and I think if I'd watched Brotherhood first I would've had more problems. Having watched Brotherhood second though, my only problems with it are by no means on a story level, more of a tone and writing thing, which I think would've bugged me under any circumstances.
edited 12th Jul '12 9:20:49 PM by polooglu
This is why I'm not arguing with you about which series is better.
I personally found Brotherhood's tone to be the more consistent with some well-timed comic relief thrown in, and loved how well the music matched it and the characters and narrative interwove throughout the whole thing.
However, a significant amount of other people have said the polar opposite to me, enough for me to think it's going to be a huge Your Mileage Will Vary thing for every person who watches it.
edited 12th Jul '12 9:42:03 PM by UltimatelySubjective
To each their own. I just think comedy relief is easy to make really annoying since some scenes just don't need relief and suffer from it. I'm not gona try and argue since I DO like Brotherhood, but I just never got to feel...I dunno, U Nreleived at all during the show. Like it was scared to be the least bit tense.
Brotherhood tends to omit some scene in the Manga, and at time some events happen in different order.
An example would be May meets Scar in brotherhood once the Elric return to rush valley, but in the Manga May meets Scar after Edward redig his mother grave.
May also visit Youmine Town twice where in Brotherhood she only visit it once.
Also the events of episode 1 & 27 of Brotherhood never happened, and they also omit the scene where Ling and Lan Fan fight Gluttony and Envy in central before Roy awesome fight against Lust.
They also omit the train chapter of the Elric vs. Terrorist which happen after the events of Of the Youswell Mine chapter. (Just think 2003 episode 5 & 9 expest without hughes and Fallman and it take place in the present, and it takes place right after lior.)
edited 14th Jul '12 6:19:33 PM by DavidtheMouse14
And then there's Ishval. It takes up an entire volume in the manga, but only one episode in Brotherhood. Also, Brotherhood reorganized Scar's background so it overshadowed Winry's reaction to discovering that he killed her parents.
As a serious suggestion, anyone who enjoys either version of FMA in any capacity should read volume 15 of the manga. It is brutal in just about every aspect, and quite possibly the best volume of anything I have ever read.
For the thread's topic... I prefer Brotherhood because the manga's plot resonates with me in a way the first anime's didn't. And after about episode 30 of the first anime... I don't know. Something changed. I was watching with the intention of figuring out just how much of my preference for the manga was bias, but I seriously enjoyed the first half of it (not as much as I enjoyed the manga, but in case it weren't plainly obvious already, I adore the manga). Then in the second half, something stopped clicking. I couldn't make myself care about any of the characters.
edited 14th Jul '12 7:37:38 PM by Immi
PM box is always open.

@polooglu
I mean Dante needed to seem like a credible Big Bad, when she was revealed as the final villain, I was shaking my head, since her entire character build was one of a Smug Snake. She doesn't that air about her. There just wasn't anything threatening about her, nothing really intelligent (none of the alchemy she use was from her own research but from Hohenheim's, she only won against Hohenheim because he was already decomposing more than she was, the homunculi did all the work), and even worse not having any real power on her own. Really all of homunculi were more compelling, and threatening than she ever was. The thing about a Big Bad is that they should be credible.
And Rose was also a extra character who hadn't either appeared or was ever mentioned for over 20+, which was over half the series. Its stupid to expect the viewer to remember an extra like this. Only for a big wham for the story to pull a Rape as Drama, trying to make me feel sorry for a character that I didn't even remember, and so therefore didn't care. What you're saying doesn't change the fact that the writers expected to get a sense of pathos out of a character that only shows up for a two episode one-shot story, while they also do nothing to remind us the viewer of her existence. Besides me despising the Rape as Drama trope as a rule, I hate it even more if the only thing it was meant to do was to make the viewer go "Oh poor girl". Ed only had two encounters with Lyra once as a tacked on character during the Mine incident, and again as a maid during for Dante. She was a background character. Her screen time during her appearances don't even make up 10 minutes, with her I was more apathetic (if that was even possible) than I was with Rose. In what series was Scheska not a sweet girl? She was basically just who loved to read books, and so became a librarian for the sole purpose of reading books, and she also loved to cook, she was as normal as normal could be. Really the simple fact that we even know more about Scheska than Rose, should tell you a lot.
Yes, Ed is stagnant in the 2003 series. Throughout the series he just never seems to grow up, and just comes across as the same juvenile young child, who believes that he should do everything on his own, even when its made painfully clear, that what is going on is bigger than him, and the people around him are very much trustworthy. And especially since what was going on involved them more than it did him. Not only that but he claims that he won't sacrifice any lives to bring back either his brother or his body, and yet he turns around and sacrifices himself to bring back Al, using human transmutation, despite the series having him swear up and down that he wasn't going to do that ever again. On that note pessimism and cynicism does not make you mature, a pessimistic/cynical person can be just as immature if not more so than an idealist. Once the series ended I felt as though 2003 Ed had learned absolutely nothing, I felt as though Ed was still very much a child. That being said, angst =/= character development, just because a character feels sorry for themselves is not a mark of growth or change, actually its just a mark of being stagnant, as they are trapped in the past and cannot move forward. Its not being mean, Al was was an accessory to Ed, he was more immature than Ed in 2003 version, gullible, quick to jump to conclusions, and had an habit of letting his emotions rule over all of his actions (even more so than Ed, remember Sloth, and the thief). Need I remind you that Al despite the fact that he acted as though he was 11 he was supposed to be 14 during the tv series. He never stepped out of his brother's shadow, he never became his own character.
Your claim about Al not growing much in in Brotherhood, is a balled faced lie. Al went from a young boy who was always behind his older brother's shadow to a young man who could stand on his own as an equal and also markedly different from his brother, becoming his own character/ person in the process who actually ended up being better at alchemy than his own older brother. He also was never gullible or immature (he shouldn't be since there is only a 1 year age difference between him and Ed and he's also gone through the same experiences as Ed), at the same time he was way more compassionate than Ed.
That's your opinion, but I myself was always aware of the fact that Ed and Al were the main character, the world doesn't have to revolve around the main characters, and I certainly don't to see them 24/7 to keep in mind that they are the main characters.