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(Why) Is Anime usually for more mature audiences?

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Recon5 Avvie-free for life! from Southeast Asia Since: Jan, 2001
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#26: Mar 5th 2011 at 6:11:46 AM

[up]Compared to G1 only. G2 and G3 shook things up a bit and had some rather shocking moments.

I tend to view Beast Wars and Beast Machines as a kind of transition period for the franchise, or as a separate entity altogether.

edited 5th Mar '11 6:12:57 AM by Recon5

chocoboxxx Since: Dec, 1969
#27: Mar 5th 2011 at 6:13:20 AM

What was the name of that squicky yet official Transformers ecchi series again? Something like Transformers Kiss or something...

Recon5 Avvie-free for life! from Southeast Asia Since: Jan, 2001
Avvie-free for life!
#28: Mar 5th 2011 at 6:19:05 AM

Kiss Players. Takara may be into it but I don't know how official it can be when Hasbro (seemingly) refuses to touch it with a space bridge.

MoeDantes cuter, cuddlier Edmond from the Land of Classics Since: Nov, 2010
cuter, cuddlier Edmond
#29: Mar 5th 2011 at 8:21:25 AM

Hey now, don't diss Unico. He impaled one of his enemies on a church steeple.

Pointing out that its for kids is not dissing it. It's just stating a fact, no different from saying "you live on Earth."

Though... now that you mention it, I had indeed forgotten about Baron Ghost's impalement, or for that matter the endless stream of Nightmare Fuel Unleaded known as Unico in the Island of Magic.

I wouldn't call all Japanese TF series kiddy. Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory were all quite a bit more grim than the US series with Masterforce being the darkest of the lot. RID is also edgier than the original series. The Unicron Trilogy is quite a bit lighter, but it still isn't as fluffy as G1 pre-movie. The Movie was almost on par with Masterforce in terms of grimdark, which may have inspired that series to take a harsher approach.

Having tense moments doesn't mean you're not "kiddy." I mean dude, Bravestarr has an episode where a kid dies from drug overdose, but its still a children's cartoon.

I'm watching the Takara G1 trilogy now (halfway through Masterforce—I'm at the story arc where they're gathering the other Godmasters) but honestly I don't see how its that much harsher or more grim than pre-movie G1. Oh yeah, it has realistic firearms and stuff, but content and story-wise its only slightly more adult than Pokemon.

Must admit I'm not that familiar with RID or the Unicron trilogy (and I bet nobody on this forum is familiar with Beast Wars II or Beast Wars Neo)

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maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
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#30: Mar 5th 2011 at 8:55:39 AM

All I know is that Beast Wars Neo had a giraffe Maximal which I almost bought, before settling on Silverbolt.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
Scardoll Burn Since: Nov, 2010
Burn
#31: Mar 5th 2011 at 3:55:48 PM

I've watched Beast Wars 2.

It's.... Okay. Not too bad, not too good. Definitely not Beast Wars quality.

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Recon5 Avvie-free for life! from Southeast Asia Since: Jan, 2001
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#32: Mar 5th 2011 at 4:47:54 PM

[up][up][up]Takara puts a lot more love and attention into animating the battle damage on their characters (and the humans actually bleed when they should, which was common in anime of the era but a step up from G1). They do conflict and emotional trauma a bit better than G1 did as well (although G2 and the part of G3 that actually came out improved in those areas).

Masterforce was probably light and fluffy for an anime series just as G1 was arguably a bit more mature than most Western series but between Masterforce and G1 it's hard for me to see how G1 is closer to the dark end of the scale.

Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#33: Mar 5th 2011 at 8:35:36 PM

I think Japan in general doesn't have as much of a dichotomy between "children's culture" and "adult's culture" as here. Cute itself has become a major facet of modern Japanese pop culture, not just anime and manga.

I think that Japan just isn't afraid to try childish things as an adult. Or relegate things that might be considered childish in some cultures, to chilren. So you naturally get more adult perspectives and "adult" ideas invovled in Japanese animation perhaps on average. For the record though, there are definitely many mature Western cartoons, and most Anime and Manga are targeted at teens. Everybody should watch Persepolis.

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Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#34: Mar 5th 2011 at 9:09:56 PM

Anime is kiddy. It's primarily aimed at young audiences. It just happens to be the case that Japanese censorship laws were rather lax for the past few decades. However, it's being cracked down more and more now (many shows can no longer show blood, for example).

Secondarily, there's a significant niche audience of anime-fans with huge budgets for merchandise. It is not socially acceptable in Japan to be one of these people (charitably, they would be thought of as akin to basement dwellers), but despite that there's a market for it. And where there's a market, things will get made.

Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#35: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:36:45 PM

I hate how nobody can come to a consensus on how socially acceptable being an anime or manga fan in Japan is. If you say "yeah, it's pretty okay", you'll get dogpiled by people telling you you're a delusional Japanophile and Japan hates anime fans, so much that it's possibly the worst place on the planet to be an anime fan.

If you say "okay, I was wrong" and go on pushing the perspective that, well, maybe being an anime fan in Japan isn't so great, and it's probably even easier to be an Anime fan in the United States of America, you get people telling you as well, that you don't know Japanese culture and of course Japan must surely be a normal place to enjoy anime and manga since they produce it by the tons.

I'd hate to look like I'm giving the argument to moderation, but I get the feeling it's somewhere in between. There seems to be more comics and cartoons coming out of Japan than anywhere else on the planet. So there seems to be at least a pretty significant market for it, including it's style frequently making it's way into marketing for other products, or even anime itself making it into product marketing. I'd say it has a pretty mainstream place in Japanese culture. In the same token, identifying oneself as a huge anime fan is probably pretty weird. Most Japanese citizens probably don't even watch anime or read manga that often, I bet more often than not they're listening to dramas and watching game shows and documentaries(you know, like the type that have claimed Japanese people are part of the "lost 12 tribes of Israel), and watching Jpop videos. And the older citizens are probably listening to Enka(that is, when they're not being overworked into suicide).

Really though, which is it? There's so much evidence to either one I'd say Japan has mixed feelings about Anime and Manga. I mean, a lot of people have pride in their comics and cartoons being a notable export, just like electronics and cars, but they don't like otaku. Otaku and anime fan isn't the same thing in Japan. Otaku is someone whom doesn't have a modicum of variety in their lives and generally harasses the world around them over their interests. And it's not only the otaku that are funding the, say, Seinen industry.

edited 5th Mar '11 10:38:04 PM by Ukonkivi

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Recon5 Avvie-free for life! from Southeast Asia Since: Jan, 2001
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#36: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:44:42 PM

In Japan, what you do in your capsuleapartment is of no concern to anyone. If you want to bring it outside you'd better be prepared to become a red stain on society's foot. If someone else is paying for it, you don't even deserve to be a stain. America's much more forgiving that that, obviously.

Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#37: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:45:58 PM

I dunno, I think it's pretty normal enough to read manga on the subway or the like. Or so I've heard.

I've heard plenty about "shame culture", as much as I think the Chrysanthemum and the Sword, Japanese people definitely care a lot about what other people think of them. And not just family and friends, but utter strangers.

But I don't really think there's that much shame there in being an anime and/or manga fan. And otaku, yes, an ultra-freaky otaku, definitely. Just reading a manga on the subway, somehow I have my doubts.

edited 5th Mar '11 10:48:45 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#38: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:48:37 PM

First of all, you're lumping different people into the same category. The people saying one thing are not the same as the people saying the opposite. The simplest explanation is not to argue for the middle, but that one of the claims is wrong. These are factual, testable hypotheses, not random speculation. Just go to Japan and do a poll or something. Someone probably has. Not everyone has read the poll though.

Secondly, anime and manga are different things. Manga is read by everyone. There's golfing manga and businessman manga. It's designed to be read on the train and then thrown away. They're not reading Naruto or Negima, but they're reading manga. The foreign fans don't know much about these series because we have no reason to care. Watching anime is completely different from reading manga. Watching anime makes you an otaku.

Recon5 Avvie-free for life! from Southeast Asia Since: Jan, 2001
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#39: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:49:02 PM

[up][up]Well, Japan also has the Asian habit of just 'living with' something that bothers you. It's an odd combination: People should keep their controversial habits to themselves, but if you do it out in the open, it's equally expected that others have to keep their objections to themselves as well.

edited 5th Mar '11 10:49:18 PM by Recon5

Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#40: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:49:44 PM

The simplest explanation is not to argue for the middle, but that one of the claims is wrong.
Not when there's a lot of evidence to both ends.

Watching anime makes you an otaku.
Source?

Also, if that were true, that's a very interesting cultural difference between Japan and the United States. In the United States, watching anime is seen as a little childish, but in many cases it's pretty normally, especially for things like Family Guy and Toy Story. While reading comics is absolutely seen as geeky.

edited 5th Mar '11 10:52:18 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#41: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:52:10 PM

I don't see any evidence. You say "its style making its way into marketing" but you're missing the fact that anime isn't a style in Japan. That's just how people draw. Cartoon mascots for companies isn't anything unusual in any country.

Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#42: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:53:06 PM

Things like K-On have definitely been used for marketing.

You've missed a lot of evidence. For instance, Sazae-san is practically a Japanese pasttime. That includes the anime.

edited 5th Mar '11 10:56:42 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#43: Mar 5th 2011 at 10:57:21 PM

It's The Simpsons for Japan. Does this prove that America is also cartoon-friendly at all ages?

Ukonkivi Over 10,000 dead.:< Since: Aug, 2009
Over 10,000 dead.:<
#44: Mar 5th 2011 at 11:01:09 PM

Funny how you're making that same argument about manga. But now when it's about anime you're saying things like Sazae-san don't count. Which isn't any different than that "golfing manga" you speak of.

I just gave you something comparable to your manga example. Yes, watching cartoons is acceptable in America, watching the Simpsons is acceptable in America. The Simpsons is a cartoon.

You're really digging yourself a hole of hypocritical, self contradictory examples.

edited 5th Mar '11 11:01:55 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
MoeDantes cuter, cuddlier Edmond from the Land of Classics Since: Nov, 2010
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#45: Mar 6th 2011 at 7:45:51 AM

See, this is what happens when all your information is based on secondhand reports that try to define an entire country as if all foreign cultures work like planets on Star Trek.

To be honest, I sometimes think Japanese society is just like American society with all the terms changed and cartoon characters on the cards. Yeah, Japanese people might not like you to "geek out" in public. Americans don't really like that either. Human beings don't fundamentally change just because they have different skin colors or come from a different land mass.

Getting back to Transformers for a minute, it does seem like it steps up considerably once they find all the Godmasters and the plot thread about BlackZarak starts.

edited 6th Mar '11 7:48:51 AM by MoeDantes

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KlarkKentThe3rd Since: May, 2010
#46: Mar 6th 2011 at 12:39:23 PM

Regarding original poster's question:

Yes.

Short answer, isn't it?

WORLDTree Since: Dec, 1969
#47: Mar 6th 2011 at 12:55:55 PM

Japan is country of what? 127 million? Despite what reports and the government would like you to believe not everyone thinks the exact same way or feels the same on every issue, with more people you get more diversity in the opinions, hence why you get some people who don't care and some people who do.

And think about it like this, lets say you talk to a person who loves RC Cars, and that's all he talks about to you about for three hours, and whenever the conversation goes somewhere else he redirects it back to RC Cars. Replace this with anything like Metal to Anime and it becomes annoying, it's like how everyone complains about those "weeaboos" who always talk about Anime and Japan and always bring the conversation back to Japan even if Japan doesn't really relate to the discussion, the kind who go on about Pocky and Ramen all the time.

And see that's what most people feel when they meet a real Otaku, it's not the Anime that's the problem it's the obsession, there's a major difference between watching it and becoming obsessed with it to the point where it begins to inhibit your life. And it's not just Anime it's anything, Otaku mainly goes towards Anime and Manga but it could go to Trains, Seiyuu, or even the military, and people in Japan don't really enjoy interacting with these people anymore then forum users here enjoy interacting with "GLORIOUS NIPPON" types.

It's a hobby, it's something you do in your down-time after your daily schedule, it's the difference between playing World Of Warcraft and playing World Of Warcraft while pissing in a bottle.

And back to the main topic, yes it pretty comes down to the fact there are about 20 shows released each season in Japan so you get more materiel to look at and more variety to choose from.

edited 6th Mar '11 4:41:03 PM by WORLDTree

KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#48: Mar 6th 2011 at 2:39:20 PM

Japan is country of what? 11 million?

You're off by an order of magnitude. 127 million as of the 2004 census.

WORLDTree Since: Dec, 1969
#49: Mar 6th 2011 at 4:41:34 PM

Yeah, forgot to check, proves the point even more though.

Bunai Space Bunny from Jupiter Since: Oct, 2010
Space Bunny
#50: Mar 7th 2011 at 9:57:49 AM

Over the years, I now view anime as (oddly) animated live-action because as previous poster put there is so many series in terms of variety. Producing anime is cheaper than making a live-action show, and when you can bring drama in animated form why spend the time with live-actors?

So I don't see it as mature, I see it as another medium that is used because it has advantages. It is so commonplace in Japan, but to any outsiders, it is something amazing.

Seriously though (not to be snarky) the topic title reminds me of things I read on BBS during the 90s'. People claiming that "Anime is more mature because it has boobs / blood / cussing / angst / dark / slice of life" so on. They are basically comparing this to their own countries animation instead of seeing it as another form of entertainment.

edited 7th Mar '11 10:01:04 AM by Bunai


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