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Looking for feedback and scientific hardness rating on my setting.

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Archereon Ave Imperator from Everywhere. Since: Oct, 2010
Ave Imperator
#1: Mar 3rd 2011 at 5:57:38 PM

I'm not sure where I want this setting to go, but I've put a lot of thought into it, and I've decided to see what the good tropers think of it.


I've done my best to create a "somewhat hard" science fiction space opera. There is no Faster than Light travel, but there is faster than light communications, virtually instantaneous communications in fact, though that's absolutely necessary for the setting to function.
"FTL travel" in this setting is accomplished by uploading the human conciousness across interstellar distances, either into specially prepared and cybernetically altered cloned bodies, or various types of compatible machines. In order to have one's mind uploaded however, a person must be implanted with extensive cybernetics, most importantly a neural I/O system. Gesalts, people who have undergone these surgeries, face significant distrust and often outright hostility in human society. Despite being absolutely essential for humanity's survival, many people are unwilling to trust the technology that brought the human race to the brink of extinction...

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GiantSpaceChinchilla Since: Oct, 2009
#2: Mar 3rd 2011 at 6:36:56 PM

It sounds pretty high(hard?) up the scale to me.

Archereon Ave Imperator from Everywhere. Since: Oct, 2010
Ave Imperator
#3: Mar 3rd 2011 at 6:52:12 PM

I estimate it'll get a 3 or maybe a 4. For some reason, people are a lot more willing to accept FTL communications than FTL travel.

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storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
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#4: Mar 3rd 2011 at 8:47:21 PM

FTL Travel and FTL Communication are equally bad from a scientific point of view. Though this falls under Acceptable Breaks from Reality, so readers won't object. Just don't expect to win prizes from physicists for not including FTL Travel.

edited 3rd Mar '11 8:47:55 PM by storyyeller

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doorhandle Since: Oct, 2010
#5: Mar 3rd 2011 at 9:07:41 PM

Nice way to get around the problem though.

Yej (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
#6: Mar 4th 2011 at 5:01:52 AM

Yeah, from a purely scientific point of view, FTL-anything results in Time Travel.

Archereon Ave Imperator from Everywhere. Since: Oct, 2010
Ave Imperator
#7: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:38:23 AM

[up] [up] [up]


Not necessarily, FTL must either "give up causality" (time travel), or "give up relativity", (no time travel, but dire consequences for many physical laws, particularly in the case of travel.)

Since FTL travel also implies FTL communication, it carries all of the problems of both phenomena, making a universe with only FTL communication slightly harder (not by much though) than one with FTL travel.

(note that here, FTL travel means the transmission of massive particles at faster than light velocities.)

edited 4th Mar '11 6:39:02 AM by Archereon

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FrodoGoofballCoTV from Colorado, USA Since: Jan, 2001
#8: Mar 4th 2011 at 7:41:42 AM

It differes from most FTL Sci-Fi in that it Subverts some common Hard Sci-Fi lovers' pet peeves:

It's still a 3 by my interpretation of the scale, but I'd definately put it in the harder half of the 3's depending on the details.

Archereon Ave Imperator from Everywhere. Since: Oct, 2010
Ave Imperator
#9: Mar 4th 2011 at 8:17:13 AM

[up][up]

Well, there are, in a sense, "galaxy conquering fleets" of sorts, but they come in the form of

A. Guided hunks of metal traveling at high enough velocities to inflict Biosphere Killing Kabooms.

B. Or, in a less destructive fashion, sending a bunch of unmanned Von Neumann ships to systems with asteroid belts or mineral rich planets. The ships use the planet's resources to construct an army. This technique is also used to establish colonies.

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MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#10: Mar 4th 2011 at 12:29:17 PM

Well I've heard that you could do FTL communication using 'quantum-spin', but I don't know much about Quantum Physics so I don't know how possible that actually is.

Archereon Ave Imperator from Everywhere. Since: Oct, 2010
Ave Imperator
#11: Mar 4th 2011 at 12:30:47 PM

Matt II: Quantum entanglement cannot transmit data faster than light, attempting to influence two entangled particles to enter one quantum state or another breaks the connection.

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MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#12: Mar 4th 2011 at 12:34:13 PM

Ah, okay, like I said, my knowledge of QP is very limited.

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#13: Mar 4th 2011 at 2:09:58 PM

Well there isn't much to comment on. Physicists always have FTL in their stories because it's fun. In any case, could we have more details unless i missed a post.

Pyroninja42 Forum Villain from the War Room Since: Jan, 2011
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#14: Mar 4th 2011 at 2:14:36 PM

Also, the thing about FTL travel is that we know too little about how the world works to determine whether it is or isn't possible. Given the strangeness of science, I would say it's likely. What Science HAS (mostly- relativity is, in fact, a theory) proven is that it's pretty much impossible to accelerate anything of significant mass to or near the speed of light through conventional Newtonian means of propulsion. I.E., "every action has an equal and opposite reaction"; pushing something forward by essentially pushing backwards.

edited 4th Mar '11 2:15:33 PM by Pyroninja42

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storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
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#15: Mar 4th 2011 at 9:45:50 PM

^ Science has proven that in all cases which we are able to observe, relativity appears to hold. And relativity implies that FTL anything = time travel.

I'd be extremely surprised if FTL turns out to be possible on a non quantum scale in Real Life. It could happen, but there's no real reason to believe it is likely.

edited 4th Mar '11 9:48:15 PM by storyyeller

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breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#16: Mar 4th 2011 at 10:24:33 PM

^ No reason that it must happen at the quantum level. If you go with one of the most recent theories on the matter there may be a minimum limit to the granularity of the universe.

So anyway, why only FTL communications and why no FTL travel? How does the technology work such that FTL travel is impossible?

edited 4th Mar '11 10:26:29 PM by breadloaf

MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#17: Mar 5th 2011 at 12:39:16 AM

Probably uses Tachyons or something, so sending and receiving information is possible, maybe even fairly easy, but converting matter into Tachyons is a few orders of magnitude harder.

edited 5th Mar '11 12:40:05 AM by MattII

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#18: Mar 5th 2011 at 7:51:56 AM

^^ One reason to think it won't happen is that quantum mechanics has already been reconciled with special relativity.

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MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#19: Mar 5th 2011 at 11:06:12 AM

Could you theoretically open a wormhole between the sender and receiver units, thus shortening the actual distance you have to transmit?

Yej (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
#20: Mar 5th 2011 at 11:12:26 AM

Yes, that's perfectly permissible by Relativity. (And probably the To E of the day.) However, it still leads to Time Travel shenanigans.

edited 5th Mar '11 11:13:22 AM by Yej

MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#21: Mar 5th 2011 at 11:59:15 AM

Not if both ends are in the same time frame surely.

Yej (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
#22: Mar 5th 2011 at 12:22:36 PM

Even more so. tongue Traveling faster than c from the perspective of any reference frame means that there is some other frame that will observe you moving back in time. (What may be slightly confusing is the fact that, in Relativity, two events happening at the "same time" is only meaningful if they also happen in the same place.)

Archereon Ave Imperator from Everywhere. Since: Oct, 2010
Ave Imperator
#23: Mar 5th 2011 at 1:27:35 PM

[up][up] To convert a wormhole into a time traveling device, one would need to accelerate the wormhole to relativistic velocities, and some theories state that doing so would cause the wormhole to collapse.

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Pyroninja42 Forum Villain from the War Room Since: Jan, 2011
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#24: Mar 5th 2011 at 8:03:42 PM

Archeron, you pulled that out of your ass and you know it.

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MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#25: Mar 5th 2011 at 9:30:35 PM

Nope, he got it off wikipedia.


Total posts: 28
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