Spider-Man has already visited the Ultimate universe and met alternate Gwen so if they wanted to bring her back they might have Ultimate Gwen hop ship to the mainline universe. Though now that I think about it I'm not sure I give the writers enough credit to avoid doing squicky stuff if that happens so pretend I never said anything.
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des UrsinsIt should be noted that JMS's original plan was that the changed caused by Myphisto during One More Day would have resulted in Gwen Stacy never dying and Harry Osborn never taking up the mantle of the Green Goblin (explaining why he's alive which I don't think has ever been addressed in actual continuity). Quesada nixed that idea because Gwen Stacy was a plausible long term romantic interest that might wind up with Peter married again he didn't want to erase decades of continuity.
It was explained. Mysterio faked his death for Norman.
And JMS's plan was interesting. I actually had a discussion with Dan Slott himself at CBR over whether or not it would be a preferable direction to Quesada's version. Slott said it would've essentially been a Crisis-style reboot that would've affected the entire shared universe and thus Joe was right to pull the plug; I had previously heard (admittedly from somewhere less authoritative than Dan Slott) that only stories involving Goblin-people would be retconned out, and everything else (Venom, Kraven's Last Hunt, etc.) would stay as-is.
While the Quesada version definitely keeps to canon more, it only does so by jumping through some very stupid hoops and derailing characters. To be honest streamlining Goblin continuity a bit wouldn't be a bad thing.
Which issue is Harry's return explained in (I haven't been following much more than the broad strokes of Spider Man continuity for the past few years)?
Wait, really? Didn't Quesada say that would be incredibly stupid and lame?
And before you make the obvious comment, yes, Quesada does in fact know what is stupid and lame; however, what he knows to be stupid and lame on at least some occasions differs from what other people know to be stupid and lame. For example, Quesada knows that Peter being married is lame; this is in contrast to JMS, who knows that Peter being married is a good thing.
edited 19th Nov '12 4:51:40 AM by VampireBuddha
Ukrainian Red CrossBringing back Gwen wouldn't have any effect on the fridging trend. There's no putting that genie back in the bottle, except for readers to simply stop buying comics that do it. And that's not going to happen.
X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.Honestly, I don't care one way or the other on the issue of whether or not Peter should be married. I just care that it happens organically.
A wedding is organic. A divorce is organic. A death is cliche and overdone at this point, but still organic.
A Cosmic Retcon is not organic.
EDIT: Whatever happens to the character should feel like the characters of the story are driving it. It should not feel like the author stepped into the story to actively move the pieces to where he wants them to be, and that's what a Cosmic Retcon does.
edited 19th Nov '12 10:55:30 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.And before you make the obvious comment, yes, Quesada does in fact know what is stupid and lame; however, what he knows to be stupid and lame on at least some occasions differs from what other people know to be stupid and lame. For example, Quesada knows that Peter being married is lame; this is in contrast to JMS, who knows that Peter being married is a good thing.
Yep. For the 50th anniversary of Spider-Man, Marvel released a miniseries called Spider-Men, in which 616-Peter visits the Ultimate Universe and meets Miles, and they fight Mysterio... who, somewhat bafflingly, is the same guy in both universes (apparently, Ultimate Mysterio is an android controlled by 616 Mysterio, who apparently invented an interdimensional portal. Because that's something they teach you in Special Effects school?). Haven't read it myself, but I heard it was pretty decent, the way Mysterio was handled notwithstanding.
I don't know about Quesada saying it would be stupid and lame, but I do remember someone...I want to say Bendis?...saying that a crossover between 616 and the Ultimate Universe would signal that the writers of the Ultimate U have run out of good ideas.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Which was the absolutely dumbest thing for a creator to say.
Putting a sanction on a good idea to make a point is the best way to make sure you look like an Idiot and a Hypocrite when you actually realize that it was a good idea.
YMMV on whether or not it was a "good" idea, although one could also argue that the idea they put a sanction on has changed under circumstances.
This was said years ago, when Ultimate Spider-Man was still 15-year-old Peter Parker. Spider-Men wasn't a Peter Parker/Peter Parker team-up; it used a completely different character that didn't exist at that point in time.
edited 19th Nov '12 12:48:12 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
No. The sanction was that the Marvel universe and the Ultimate universe would not cross over directly lest they officially ran out of ideas. It had nothing to do with whether Peter Parker met himself.
And it's a "good" idea because it's inevitable, and would potentially be a sales boost if Ultimatum hadn't already screwed up Ultimate Marvel something fierce. It's something a lot of fans would like, and under a decent writer could be handled well (and, in fact, was). The fact that they put a sanction on it to the point that they made idiots of themselves preemptively was just short-sighted stupidity.
There's a difference between a marketable idea and a good idea. Spider-Men managed to be a surprisingly good story mostly for the emotional bits revolving around the one character that crossed over. Peter's scenes interacting with the people that knew Ultimate Peter were what sold the story, providing closure to a lot of characters that never got any when Ultimate Peter died.
At its core, the story paid a lot more attention to that emotional element than the actual crossover story itself, "Two Spider-Men race to defeat Mysterio", which proved to be a very good decision. The actual crossover plot itself was a fairly basic dimension-crossover plot, attempting to resolve a dangling plot thread by raising more questions than it answered, and the plot itself only worked because the villain was an idiot.
"Marvel Universe meets Ultimate Universe" is, in and of itself, a lame and overdone concept. Woo alternate universes, we don't have enough of those in comics. Spider-Men worked because it shunted the lame, overdone story into the background to focus more on wrapping up Ultimate Peter Parker's story, using 616 Peter as a plot device to serve this effect.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Quesada pretty much said on that "I have the right to change my mind." Also, the Ultimate Universe wanst a "cure" as that line was plagued from the start outside a few islands of consistency and then spent three years crapping the bed before Death of Spider-Man put it back on track and they decided what the hell they were doing. And then Humohries showed up...
Casual talk is a debate you have to win.

I always figured if Peter actually got what he wanted and Gwen were somehow allowed to live, he would realize she was wrong for him. He continues to carry a torch for her because she is dead and, thus, unattainable.
That whole thing about her affair with Norman Osborne and resulting pregnancy may have been an attempt to knock Gwen from her exalted pedestal a bit so that fans would see her as more human, less an ideal.
Or, suppose Gwen survived the fall, but her spine was snapped, leaving her in a wheelchair? Could Peter love a diminished, depressed, angry Gwen who probably blames his alter-ego for the loss of her legs? Or would he stay with a perfect bitch simply out of guilt and allow himself to be miserable as penance?