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Rename: The Force

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1: Feb 27th 2011 at 8:56:37 AM

Now, I know it has 200 wicks, but hear me out. The Trope Namer brings ALOT of problem, first of all:

The Force is supposed to be that the universe in inherently good. It's got nothing to do about superpowers. Only that the Universe itself, the stuff it's made up, tends to be good.

  • The VAST majority of the wicks are potholes to The Force from Star Wars. And most of those not in the manner which the trope uses it either. Stuff like "He's a Force-Sensitive Pilot" or "He uses Force Push".
  • It's often merely linked to as an omnipresent magical force that gives one Super Powers (That's not what the trope is about).
  • The Trope Namer's status as an example is debatable. In the film alone, it's never mentioned outright that The Force is "good". For one it has a Dark Side. Expanded Universe sometime uses the trope (The Force is good, The Dark Side comes from using it against it's own nature), sometimes doesn't (The Force is neutral, existing as Light and Dark). Eitherway, the page's own example spends a good amount talking about Force Powers, which are not this trope.

edited 27th Feb '11 9:02:49 AM by Ghilz

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#2: Feb 27th 2011 at 9:17:19 AM

Oh dear. I fully agree, let's get it fixed before it gets too many more inbounds (right now, it only has 83). We can change wicks. We can't do anything about Inbound links.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#3: Feb 27th 2011 at 9:27:46 AM

Hmm rename it then put a placeholder page? Or we could YKTTW a trope for the actual The Force a neutral power source which people with the ability can draw on to do things. Magic in Negima works the same way as apposed to Ki which comes from inside the body.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#4: Feb 27th 2011 at 11:51:51 AM

Support. How's it being used most often?

Fight smart, not fair.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#5: Feb 27th 2011 at 12:00:48 PM

There's currently an Edit War on the Mass Effect page because of this thing's named. Someone keeps adding their supposition that biotics are based on the force as an example of The Force. I think the current name is problematic and that we shouldn't really use it for any trope if people are just going to abuse it to mean the Star Wars force. That's not really a trope and shouldn't got under anything but Shout-Out.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
FallenLegend Trickster. from Navel Of The Moon. Since: Oct, 2010
Trickster.
#6: Feb 27th 2011 at 12:26:37 PM

I vote for a rename

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.
kernedge Since: Dec, 1969
#7: Feb 27th 2011 at 3:38:42 PM

I second for a rename. As it is, Star Wars's force is not even an example of the trope.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#8: Feb 27th 2011 at 4:25:10 PM

The Force isn't an example of The Force? Whaaaaa?

Rename it.

edited 27th Feb '11 4:25:34 PM by nrjxll

Atz Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Feb 27th 2011 at 5:26:16 PM

Rename. I always get it confused with Background Magic Field. They even share a quote!

Plus, as has been mentioned, it gets potholed all over the place to Force Push, biotics, Ki Attacks, and so on.

edited 27th Feb '11 5:28:59 PM by Atz

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10: Feb 27th 2011 at 5:29:04 PM

Considering that Background Magic Field has only 21 wicks, I suspect The Force has stolen quite a few (I can think at least three)

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Redhead Since: Jan, 2011
#12: Feb 27th 2011 at 5:54:30 PM

Can anyone think of one reason to keep this name, or should we just skip the formalities and whip up an Alternate Titles crowner?

For goodness sake, the Laconic entry would make a better name than The Force.

edited 27th Feb '11 5:58:22 PM by Redhead

The new It Just Bugs Me!
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#13: Feb 27th 2011 at 6:00:23 PM

Rename, edit wars because someone didn't actually read the page are not acceptable.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#14: Feb 27th 2011 at 6:22:40 PM

For goodness sake, the Laconic entry would make a better name than The Force.

Which amazing considering the Laconic describes a completely different trope.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#15: Feb 27th 2011 at 6:24:36 PM

Lifeforce as power. (Not to be confused with Duct Tape.)

umm isn't that Cast From HP or Cast from Lifespan?

edited 27th Feb '11 6:25:07 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#16: Feb 27th 2011 at 6:25:51 PM

Yarp. That and Life Energy itself.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#17: Feb 27th 2011 at 6:26:55 PM

I'm not entirely sure what trope the main page is trying to describe. It rambles a lot.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#18: Feb 27th 2011 at 6:30:19 PM

From what I got: The Universe is Intrinsically good. The description could use better writing.

Redhead Since: Jan, 2011
#19: Feb 27th 2011 at 6:30:47 PM

Sorry, I thought the trope was about an omnipresent lifeforce of pure good that can be used as power.

...what is it, then?

edited 27th Feb '11 6:33:19 PM by Redhead

The new It Just Bugs Me!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#20: Feb 27th 2011 at 6:32:43 PM

Maybe? I'm not sure this is a trope. It just seems to be rambling. Maybe we should just cut it.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
kernedge Since: Dec, 1969
#21: Feb 28th 2011 at 1:06:04 AM

Here's what I propose:
- Rename/delete this page. I'm leaning toward deletion, since none of the trope examples seem to really fit. Actually, I doubt any writer would set their story in a world that is inherently good, since that would give the heroes the most powerful ally... unless there was a Villain Protagonist (that actually sounds very nice), but the point is, I don't see this trope appearing anywhere.
- Create an alt-title The Force to Background Magic Field, this way there will be a much smaller number of wicks to correct (I'm willing to bet most of them are pointing to the Star Wars-y concept).

edited 28th Feb '11 1:07:07 AM by kernedge

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#22: Feb 28th 2011 at 1:46:02 AM

Background Magic Field seems like the more appropriate trope. Most of the potholes for stuff like "force push" could be switched for Telechenetic Attack or something.

Fight smart, not fair.
Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Feb 28th 2011 at 7:48:50 AM

So basically the trope is that "the force" (used in the Star Wars sense) is intrinsically good- ie There is no Dark Side to the force. Thus making Star Wars not an example.

Sigh...

Rename. Rename. Rename.

The Tao Supports Good

The Universe Is Cheering For The Good Side

If we really want to keep the Star Wars reference:

There Is No Dark Side

No Dark Side To The Force (This might actually not be too bad, if we have The Force redirect to an accurate trope, then we would be referencing two other tropes in the title, allowing links to those tropes to further explore the concepts.)

The Force Is Always Good

Now, do we have a trope that is the force (in the Star Wars sense), that we can make The Force a redirect to?

edited 28th Feb '11 7:50:33 AM by Sackett

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#24: Feb 28th 2011 at 8:47:59 AM

I'd really rather not have The Force go anywhere because I think no matter what we define it as, people will just use it as a shout out for the Star Wars force. Even when it's not at all appropriate.

edited 28th Feb '11 8:48:13 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#25: Feb 28th 2011 at 9:40:51 AM

[up]So we should use it for a trope that describe The Force from Star Wars? Like Background Magic Field. Then all references from Star Wars will be automatically correct.

AlternativeTitles: TheForce
16th Sep '11 6:43:59 AM

Crown Description:

We need a descriptive name to replace The Force that actually gets across what the trope is about: "The Universe is intrinsically good".

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