"There is no adequate justification or Freudian Excuse to balance out the misdeeds. That is to say, while there may be a sad backstory present, it must in no way be able to excuse the heinous evil deeds the character commits."
That concept alone is reason enough for Complete Monster being subjective. Then there's part 5, where the first sentence is rendered subjective by the "at least not without being considered a Karma Houdini" part. CM is definitely subjective by its very nature.
As for other articles, it depends...
Isn't there a thread for asking about some of them or something? Do you have any actual original complaints or are you going to go on a crusade to try and show that Complete Monster is objective? Cause that's been tried.
Fight smart, not fair.Why does everyone keep focusing on subjective versus objective? Isn't YMMV about audience reaction tropes? Complete Monster is a reaction from the audience. It may be intentional by the author, but it's still a reaction you have to watching a character do something.
(It would not be YMMV when it is used in-story, but that's true for all tropes on the YMMV index.)
Everyone Has An Important Job To DoIt's about both subjective tropes and Audience Reactions. They're similar, but not identical.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickThe Complete Monster is just one thing that people start putting YMMV to abuse that new system. When a clearly evil villain whose massacred hundreds of people, for example-like the Joker, if he gets a YMMV entry, he and all other CM's are taken off of the main Batman page and no discussion is brought up. Same with other 'YMM Vs'.
One thing you need to keep in mind is that a trope being on the YMMV page doesn't mean that it's bad—it just means that not every viewer/reader/player/whatever will experience the trope. As has been noted earlier in the thread, only criteria 1, 2, and 4 of Complete Monster are independent of the audience—3 and 5 can and will be disputed. Experience has shown that so long as a significant judgment component exists, someone will disagree. Also, the moment we allow one example as being "objective enough", it just leads people to fight for that status for their own examples, like so:
- A is deemed to have enough consensus to be an objective example of an otherwise subjective trope
- Troper X thinks B is just as objective as A, and thus adds it
- Troper Y thinks C is just as objective as B, and thus adds it
- Troper Z thinks D is just as objective as C, and thus adds it
- Troper X comes back to the page and can't believe that D got added, because it's clearly not an example of the trope.
- Troper W arrives and edits out A and C, since they're clearly not examples, but leaves B, since it clearly is.
edited 26th Feb '11 4:17:33 PM by Ironeye
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.Exists one Trope Repair Shop thread to Complete Monster. If you is interessed...
Complete Monster got put on YMMV because it was being abused, not the other way around.
Fight smart, not fair.

Seriously, several Complete Monster links in Gundam X and others have been taken out. How can these characters be disputed? And the other YMMV tropes? It seems people are just abusing the system now.