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Filby Since: Jan, 2001
#26: Mar 2nd 2011 at 5:08:42 AM

[up][up]Correction! The comics Chase and Martian Manhunter contains information about "the interregnum" between 1951 and Superman.

During that time most American superheroes simply retired. The villains took a little longer, but without the "fun" of fighting heroes, most of them retired as well. (Except Vandal Savage, who went underground.)

A few "underground" superheroes popped up in the '60s or '70s, most notably the Justice Experience (scroll down), made up of bored middle-class kids who fought harmless villains... until one of them was murdered, but that's another story.

warrior93 warrior93 from North Carolina Since: Feb, 2011
warrior93
#27: Mar 2nd 2011 at 12:47:29 PM

Is there anywhere I could get some old Chase comics?

Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
Filby Since: Jan, 2001
#28: Mar 3rd 2011 at 4:56:29 AM

Sadly, it wasn't collected into any paperbacks. You'd have to hunt the series (10 issues) down issue-by-issue. It's a very good series, though - very underrated. Needs More Love.

warrior93 warrior93 from North Carolina Since: Feb, 2011
warrior93
#29: Mar 3rd 2011 at 9:13:28 AM

That's good to hear and I read the DC legacy comics which explained things a little bit more.

Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
arbane BLUH from Wallowing in obscurity Since: Jan, 2001
BLUH
#30: Mar 5th 2011 at 2:16:03 AM

Canada was the most evil country in Marvel world after Russia and Dr. Doom land. The Civil War's real purpose was to help the United States catch up, because seriously, Canada? A freaking democratic socialist state violates more freedoms for the sake of mutant super soldiers than the richest, most powerful capitalistic social Darwinists under the sun?

I dunno if I'd go that far. Remember, Marvel USA's usual solution to the notional 'Mutant Menace' is giant killer robots.

edited 5th Mar '11 2:16:22 AM by arbane

punchy Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#31: Mar 5th 2011 at 5:51:54 AM

[up]I never understood how the President signed off on those.

Come to think of it, there been any sentinels since Obama was elected?

metaphysician Since: Oct, 2010
#32: Mar 5th 2011 at 7:40:46 AM

Given how often sentinels have appeared before under every other administration, if there haven't been, they will be. Left or right, in Earth 616, everyone responds to problems by killing mutants.

Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.com
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#33: Mar 5th 2011 at 9:48:16 AM

To be fair, giant robots are the solution to all problems.

Fight smart, not fair.
SKJAM Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#34: Mar 6th 2011 at 10:43:26 AM

Also in re the gap between the retirement of the JSA and the rise of Superman...The Suicide Squad comics had as part of the background that many paranormal menaces were countered by a secret government agency, Argent/Task Force X which tended to just kill the menace in question and hide the evidence.

And the Challengers of the Unknown, Cave Carson, and other non-powered, no Secret ID heroes filled in some of the gaps. Heck, the Blackhawks did a lot of crimefighting in the period.

TheProffesor The Professor from USA Since: Jan, 2011
#35: Mar 6th 2011 at 2:14:21 PM

In superhero stories might makes right. Asskicking Equals Authority. If you are the strongest,you can get away with it. Do you think any old cop is just going to walk up to Superman and arrest him for stopping a crime? No,because he could puncture your lung with his pinky.

You only challenge a higher power if you think you can win,or if you have no other choice. Unless the writer pulls out some crazy new plot device,odds are you don't have the strength to stop a superhuman if you wanted to.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#37: Mar 6th 2011 at 7:25:43 PM

[up][up] Sure, if Superman went bad your garden variety cops aren't gonna be able to do squat. That's why you bring in a bunch of other superpowered people to take him down. Regulating superheroes only breaks down if the majority of them actively resist regulation, which is true of just about any human organization.

Ezekiel Since: Jan, 2001
#38: Mar 6th 2011 at 8:59:48 PM

Generally if Superman goes bad the other superheroes are kind of obligated to step in, registration or no, because they're supposed to be heroes and not stopping a rampaging invincible dude isn't very heroic. Whereas you're implying they have to be told to do something.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#39: Mar 7th 2011 at 4:22:06 AM

If he went full-berserk "I'm going to conquer and/or destroy the world," yeah, other heroes would step in to stop him (though an organizational structure might help them coordinate better).

But suppose he only went a little ways into the dark side. Like maybe he gets jealous that another reporter at the Daily Planet is getting more money and recognition then Clark Kent is, so Clark/Superman decides to mess up the guys life: use his X-ray vision to erase the guy's computer files, grab him in a fly-by and leave him stranded a hundred kilometers from where he's supposed to be doing an interview, "accidentally" drop some rubble on his car during a supervillain battle, that sort of thing.

While all that's definitely not cool, it's relatively minor compared to a lot of the stuff superheroes deal with, and with how well-liked and respected Superman is, it's easy to imagine other superheroes not taking him to task for it, or automatically taking his word over that of the guy he's been tormenting. That's where an impartial court of inquiry would be useful.

edited 7th Mar '11 4:24:37 AM by RavenWilder

KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#40: Mar 7th 2011 at 6:52:44 AM

Regulating superheroes only breaks down if the majority of them actively resist regulation, which is true of just about any human organization.

More accurately, it breaks down if the centralization of power is just as corrupt.

Like I said before, the only possible means of doing this is if powers can be granted and removed on a whim. Modern military and government structure hinges on the fact that we can elect and appoint people into positions of power and easily remove them at evidence of corruption. This is not easy to do when "power" is inherent; Superman didn't have to be elected or hired to be Superman—he was born Superman. Likewise, sending the Justice League to stop him if he goes rogue is hinging your bets that THEY aren't corrupt, either.

In essence, you wind up with a "who watches the Watchmen"/"might makes right" situation that is ridiculously easy to abuse.

edited 7th Mar '11 6:53:03 AM by KingZeal

warrior93 warrior93 from North Carolina Since: Feb, 2011
warrior93
#41: Mar 7th 2011 at 11:20:28 AM

Couldn't the government just have cops and soldiers that had high tech weapons?

Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
TheProffesor The Professor from USA Since: Jan, 2011
#42: Mar 7th 2011 at 1:30:37 PM

Cape Killers? Yeah,they tried that. But inevitably,there will be a group of supers strong enough to oppose the "Cape Killers" and they'll be useless.

metaphysician Since: Oct, 2010
#43: Mar 7th 2011 at 1:32:30 PM

Or they could just hire/sanction/deputize those civic minded supers. Most of the problems that arise in registration scenarios arise from the assumption that you must treat superhumans as both an "other" and as a problem. Superhumans are people too.

Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.com
KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#44: Mar 7th 2011 at 1:57:41 PM

Yes, but that's basically putting all of your govt's power in the hands of an "honor system", which is just a BAD IDEA.

Being "civic-minded" is not an inherent trait, nor is it a black-and-white one. The problem of To Be Lawful or Good could arise, as could Drunk with Power. Essentially, any situation where the super disagrees with the government, even if it's with the best of intentions, creates a dilemma where the government is effectively powerless to stop the super's actions. You'd basically end up with a scenario like Bush and the Iraq invasion: if you think you're doing the right thing and no one can stop you from doing it, chances are you're going to do it.

edited 7th Mar '11 2:04:09 PM by KingZeal

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#45: Mar 7th 2011 at 5:57:43 PM

The "send supers to take down rouge supers" thing is only a problem if you assume widespread corruption (or, I suppose, if the corruption is primarily among the top-tier supers). As long as you've got enough of them who do uphold the law, they should be able to keep the rest in line. If that's not the case, well, any sufficiently corrupt system is going to be bad news, super or otherwise.

KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#46: Mar 7th 2011 at 9:22:22 PM

Well, in a world with real superheroes (that is, akin to the Marvel/DC/Image universes), that's really the only system that you can hope will work. In American superhero verses, the government is completely ineffectual against the greater threats (supervillains, alien invasions, etc.) and really can only act as support/incentive for the superheroes they rely upon. Hoping that your top heroes will always be heroes is really the best you can do unless you manage to create a group of cape killers which you have absolute control over.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#47: Mar 8th 2011 at 6:02:28 AM

But that's how all governments work. Someone can only rule a civilization if the people they govern (or a very large percentage of them, anyway) agree to let them rule. Just take a look at Tunisia and Egypt: when the population, en masse, stops doing what their leaders tell them to do, those leaders cease to be leaders anymore.

Now, since most superhumans are either born with their powers or acquire them through a freak accident (like getting splashed with weird chemicals or stumbling across a piece of Applied Phlebotinum), you can probably expect the superhuman population to have the same demographics in pretty much the same proportions as the regular population. So, unless people do stuff to alienate superhumans from society at large (like with the X Men), odds are any situation that makes most superhumans want to revolt against the government would make most people in general want to revolt. So the end result is going to be pretty much the same, whether superhumans exist or not.

KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#48: Mar 8th 2011 at 11:14:18 AM

The difference is that superhumans are Persons Of Mass Destruction. In Real Life, the citizens of an oppressive govenment don't have to worry about an entire city being thrown in the sun because the local tyrant had a temper tantrum. With most Class A/Level 3-5 superheroes (Superman, Thor, the Authority, etc.) this very much a concern. Yeah, if Spider-man loses his shit then there's not TOO much room for concern, but since we're talking about a system where the bulk of the planet's power is settled in the hands of less than a billionth of the population (such as the Justice League or The Avengers, the people revolting against their masters would mean jack shit, unless they manage to find a champion that is even more powerful. And then the cycle starts again, except with an even LARGER power gap.

edited 8th Mar '11 11:43:01 AM by KingZeal

metaphysician Since: Oct, 2010
#49: Mar 8th 2011 at 2:46:12 PM

[up] Thing is, that is exactly why the general public should be grateful for the civic-minded superheroes. . . because there *already are* people attempting to rule the world by raw power. They are called "super villains."

Its more than a little insane to worry about whether Thor *might* decide to conquer the world, rather than Dr Doom, who *is* trying to conquer the world.

Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.com
KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#50: Mar 8th 2011 at 2:59:35 PM

Well, it's trickier than that—especially in the Marvel Universe, where heroes are more tragic, fallible people.

There's a storyarc called "The Reigning" in The Mighty Thor comics which involves Thor ruling Asgard, possessing the Odinforce and deciding to actually return to his roots and act as a "god" rather than as a "hero". In so doing, he pretty much does whatever he believes is right and intervenes wherever he sees fit, gaining followers and worshipers. Eventually, a large number of people come to resent Thor placing himself above humanity and it comes to a head when New York City is nuked in an attempt to take out Thor and Asgard. Immediately afterward, Thor declares war on all government and the story skips decades into the future, where Thor now rules the world in a dystopia.

Now the thing to note here is that this was NOT an alternate reality. Thor actually did all this, but later went back in time to set it right. So yeah, it never happened in the 616, but as far as Thor is concerned, he made all of those decisions. And my point in mentioning all this is that when power is involved, things become tricky and people begin to fear those with the power. Like I said, trusting that people with power will stay benevolent is essentially like handing a stranger every account number and password you own and trusting that they won't ever take your money.

edited 8th Mar '11 2:59:48 PM by KingZeal


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