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Sid-Starkiller Since: Jan, 2021
#78676: Jun 25th 2024 at 9:28:55 AM

I mean no feature is going to please everyone, so you don't have to.

Fucking page topper...

Edited by Sid-Starkiller on Jun 25th 2024 at 12:29:12 PM

AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#78677: Jun 25th 2024 at 9:34:42 AM

Chao Gardens are tied to Chaos lore, which is now retroactively relevant to Precursor lore as of Frontiers.

It's weird how if they reincarnate several times after raising their stats to a certain baseline, they will grow into a Chaos Chao, which seems to be a genetic throwback to their Precursor roots and grants them biological immortality.

Chaos seems to have been a Chaos Chao that was empowered by the Master Emerald and the Seven Chaos and given additional powers that younger Chaos Chao have yet to develop.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#78678: Jun 25th 2024 at 9:42:43 AM

I may need to ask Flynn that in a Bumblekast - were the Ancients practically immortal? Since their descendants, the Chao, could be reborn with the right care.

I guess not truly immortal, they still went extinct, but did they have a rebirth potential similar to the Chao before their demise?

Edited by Tomodachi on Jun 25th 2024 at 9:45:12 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#78679: Jun 25th 2024 at 9:53:50 AM

According to this Bumblekast the Ancients were not originally related to Chaos/Chao and them being their very very very distant ancestors was something Ian came up with just to make the lore more cohesive, and this Bumblekast clarifies their genetic lineage led to the Chao in the same way humans came from apes—and he wasn't anticipating them to be made exactly like Chaos. Chaos himself is a Chao whose mutation simply made him look more like their distant ancestors.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Sid-Starkiller Since: Jan, 2021
#78680: Jun 25th 2024 at 9:57:44 AM

[up][up]I mean if the Chao are still around, are the Ancients TRULY extinct?

Edited by Sid-Starkiller on Jun 25th 2024 at 12:58:01 PM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#78681: Jun 25th 2024 at 9:59:58 AM

The Koko also throw a wrinkle into this as they are engrams of the Precursors at least. A record of their minds and memories that seem to act of their own.

Both However seem to be ships of Theseus. In different ways. The chao are more blatant about it though.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Jun 25th 2024 at 10:01:01 AM

wooden-ladybug93 Since: Feb, 2024
#78682: Jun 25th 2024 at 10:00:27 AM

I guess being a story writer for a long-running series is hard.

AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#78683: Jun 25th 2024 at 10:02:25 AM

One of the weirdest things I found out about was a collision detection bug with the Chaos Chao models in Adventure 2 during the karate minigame, where getting floored under certain circumstances would cause you to clip OOB and lose to a ring out immediately.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#78684: Jun 25th 2024 at 12:41:42 PM

I personally like the Chao because they're cute and make me nostalgic for a time in my life when I could sit and imagine and devote time to researching how to play a minigame in a much larger video game. Though the Guide Dang It! to raising them could have used a vast improvement. They get extra appeal to me because they kept getting replaced by a new cuddly companion as the franchise moved on.

The Wisps. I didn't like Colors and the Wisps were from that game, and far more enduring than the Chao were. When you already had cute companions to raise, I didn't see the point in having new ones all of a sudden that provide "powers" for Sonic like drilling through things, moving really quickly, becoming a block, etc.

Chip. He didn't really work for me either. It's like they distilled the cute part of the Chao into one character but gave him no gameplay relevance outside of the final boss battle. Again, a replacement for a cute companion.

The Koco. I actually like them. They're useful and while they do improve Sonic's base abilities, they do it in a way that feels non-intrusive. The little bell noises they make remind me of the Nightopians from Nights Into Dreams, they haven't reappeared outside of Frontiers far as I know, and by this point it feels like Sonic just befriends whatever tiny adorable critters happen to be in the setting that year.

Poglings is probably the only full Chao Garden remake we'll ever get. Sonic Team has weird committment issues for different elements of the franchise, so I'd rather have this.

Edited by FOFD on Jun 26th 2024 at 9:24:34 AM

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#78685: Jun 26th 2024 at 2:29:07 AM

I always found the chao to be a pleasant kind of down-time between levels. It also gave you something to do with all the rings you collect during the game. It helped push me to try to get more rings, personally, which raised my rank and pushed me to get A's

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#78686: Jun 26th 2024 at 7:40:13 AM

Yeah, same. After a certain point I cared much more about my Chao than the rest of the emblems. <3 Without them I don't think I'd have played SA2 half as long as I have.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Jun 26th 2024 at 10:40:33 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#78687: Jun 26th 2024 at 9:37:26 AM

Me, I got all the emblems... solely so I could buy more stuff for Chao!

My musician page
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#78688: Jun 26th 2024 at 9:37:57 AM

That was my goal with getting as many as I could, too! (Plus I really wanted the Amy theme.)

The Protomen enhanced my life.
chino514 (Apprentice)
#78689: Jun 26th 2024 at 9:50:09 AM

Also, since some of the emblems I believe were tied to the Chao stuff, and Adventure 1 had a Chao egg lying around in each Adventure field.

wooden-ladybug93 Since: Feb, 2024
#78690: Jun 26th 2024 at 9:58:36 AM

And even though I don’t care about the Chao Gardens, I did genuinely enjoy the medley at the Sonic Symphony.

AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#78691: Jun 26th 2024 at 10:30:23 AM

I have long believed that SEGA missed the boat on making on official Chao Garden Mobile for Android.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
wooden-ladybug93 Since: Feb, 2024
#78692: Jun 26th 2024 at 11:07:11 AM

I guess I would enjoy Forces a bit more if the avatar’s species didn’t limit me, like I wanna play as a wolf (closest to a fox) but I want the double jump ability, which only the bird can have.

TheDarkMantis Shadow Bug from Ocean of Storms Since: Nov, 2017 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
Shadow Bug
#78693: Jun 26th 2024 at 11:18:12 AM

They should have just let you select what special ability you wanted as part of a loadout alongside the wispon, so you can customize however you want. Even if that leads to Complacent Gaming Syndrome, that's already in play, so it wouldn't change much unless they adjusted the levels to compensate.

"That we continue to persist at all is a testament to our faith in one another."
JankyKong He's finally back to kick some... wait from a Secret Base on the Moon Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
He's finally back to kick some... wait
#78694: Jun 26th 2024 at 11:53:02 AM

In order for such a feature to be necessary, they would have needed to make a game where the ability you pick actually makes a difference first.

Your melody still remains in this room and it rings
Earphone-Jack Since: Jun, 2024 Relationship Status: I'm her lunatic and she's my sociopath
#78695: Jun 26th 2024 at 4:35:25 PM

Amazing EDM remix of “I’m Here - Revisited” made to celebrate Sonic’s 33rd anniversary! ^^

This person’s also made EDM versions of the other Titan themes, and they’re just as good!

Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#78696: Jun 26th 2024 at 8:58:12 PM

Honestly the Emblems I disliked getting the most were all related to the chao gardens.

It just felt so bad to be going through these levels to improve my skills and my understanding of the levels, making sure to regularly visit the chao garden after every level just to get their skills up bit by bit, only to be finished with that and have to deal with an extremely slow slog of just giving the chao more and more stuff to buff their stats enough to even have a chance at racing and karate.

And this was WITH me using that infinite animal bug to cut down on the amount of raw time I had to spend raising them.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#78697: Jun 26th 2024 at 10:03:50 PM

Its something to be done bit by bit. If you're in a rush to get the emblems, yeah, I can see it being kinda painful. But most games kinda suck if you're only focused on getting 100% completion.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#78698: Jun 27th 2024 at 3:01:12 AM

I just find hilarious how many people bemoan any slow paced platforming section on a Sonic game, then gush about the Chao garden, where one key aspect of the gameplay is WAITING.

Sid-Starkiller Since: Jan, 2021
#78699: Jun 27th 2024 at 3:13:26 AM

While I'm not one of these people, it probably comes down to gameplay expectations. They expect every minute of Sonic gameplay to be blistering fast but are fine with a virtual pet simulator being a slower affair.

Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#78700: Jun 27th 2024 at 4:11:09 AM

I don't have an issue with the chao garden in and of itself (albeit it's not my cup of tea), it's just the sheer grindiness about it.

They could do smth like Rush Adventure handled its mandatory grind, where getting good ranks cuts out some of the grinding time, since then that would mean that not only are you incentivized to play the stage for animals, but also incentivized to get good at them to improve your chao faster, and that would make it a lot better - since for the more skilled players, the chao grinding would be less of a grind, but for less skilled players, they're chiseling away at their skills in these stages while also progressively getting more stuff for their chao - a win-win.

(Sidenote: Rush Adventure making "replay the levels repeatedly" a requirement to just merely beating the stage is absolutely stupid, replaying the levels should be smth done based on the individual player's preferences, not a gatekeep towards the rest of the game)


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