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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#78451: Jun 11th 2024 at 9:12:31 AM

I have to ask: does it even matter what's canon?

Would any of us not have bought Colors, Generations, or Frontiers if we saw a Twitter post that said those games didn't happen?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#78452: Jun 11th 2024 at 9:18:40 AM

It only "doesn't" matter what things are canon when someone says..."the only things that are canon are"

Otherwise it matters constantly.

The games specifically don't matter because they still have yet to re-establish a setting.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#78453: Jun 11th 2024 at 9:21:52 AM

I don't think not being canon would necessarily hurt a games' sales, but I couldn't tell you how Rise of Lyric did financially.

wooden-ladybug93 Since: Feb, 2024
#78454: Jun 11th 2024 at 9:50:59 AM

I'm planning to get the Playstation 5 version of Sonic & Shadow Generations.

Right after I get the console itself, which might be in December, as I'm hearing rumors of a "Playstation 5 Pro" to be released that month.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78455: Jun 11th 2024 at 10:18:18 AM

I see canon in Sonic as the same thing as canon in Mario, in that it really doesn't matter beyond Easter Eggs.

I feel like some fans want Sonic canon to be more like Kirby canon, where there's secretly an intricate web of connections and lore hidden beneath the surface.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jun 11th 2024 at 10:21:43 AM

The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion Long time lurker from a deep dark hole Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Long time lurker
#78456: Jun 11th 2024 at 10:44:25 AM

That works for Kirby in more of serendipitous manner as it was a lot less big on connecting games together in the beginning of the series life, in comparison sonic fans want a interconnected series front and center with a lot of character development to be had as well.

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#78457: Jun 11th 2024 at 10:55:09 AM

In most cases, no, I don't think there's a canon for Sonic games. There's ones that get referenced as having happened, but that's usually it.

Shadow the Hedgehog was a little different in that it was kind of built off of the previous two games and is more story heavy, but its more an exception then the rule.

And there's a few other exceptions here and there, but mostly it doesn't matter.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#78458: Jun 11th 2024 at 10:56:38 AM

I mean, Sonic isn't a series with Negative Continuity. It's just a series with entirely episodic stories that can, but don't always, have a direct connection to one another.

There really shouldn't be any confusion as to what's canon and what isn't. At the end of the day, it's the same as any other episodic series: just "anything that's officially released, minus the things WOG says are no longer in continuity."

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 11th 2024 at 11:27:37 AM

wooden-ladybug93 Since: Feb, 2024
#78459: Jun 11th 2024 at 10:57:37 AM

The fact that there's a No Origin Stories Allowed for Sonic made me decide not to give my OCs any origin stories either. So thanks Sonic, for saving me the stress.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#78460: Jun 11th 2024 at 11:26:44 AM

It always seemed to me like all the debates about canon were just a way so people don't have to think about the stuff they don't like.

Conversely, all the pushing for IDW being canon is the opposite. Canon is viewed as the highest reward a piece of art can get for some reason.

You see this a lot in Star Wars circles too for very similar reasons.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#78461: Jun 11th 2024 at 11:30:56 AM

IIRC, IDW is considered canon because Sonic Team or acceptably affiliated parties keeps saying in official capacity that it's canon (without the awkward "sure whatever it's canon, but we don't intend to ever acknowledge it so stop asking" vibe you got with Prime) rather than just because people want it to be canon.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 11th 2024 at 11:32:21 AM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#78462: Jun 11th 2024 at 11:49:45 AM

[up][up] I think I can see what. Both because if the origin of the word (canon originally refered to scriptures that were considered the true legitimate sequence of events, as opposed to apocrypha) and because canonicity means a slightly higher chance I'd seeing fan favorites in official media more often (in this case, The Diamond Cutters, Belle, Surge, etc) or win debates.

Of course that depends on the work in question. Star Wars did legitimately make several details and characters from spinoffs canon in the sense that they made appearances in official media. With the Clone Wars cartoon being the biggest winner by both dodging the spring cleaning with Legends, and also having two sequels (Rebels and Ashoka) and Ashoka getting a cameo in one of the sequel firms iirc.

Sonic in contrast? Well let's be frank. Sally and co never appeared in the games. Neither did Cosmo or any if the Archie characters. Sticks only appeared in the boom games and some spinoffs. And IDW's only references or crossovers were in either gacha runners or in easily edited voicelines. Not exactly what fans have in mind here (latter also applies to Sticks).

Part of this is due to a presumed disregard for anything that isn't sonic team's own ideas, which encompasses anything American in origin, as well as the X anime, the ova, and the comics. Thus it can be argued that those works were "canon" in name only.

Some of the media seemed aware of it enough given that 06 and Prime both ended in ways that made it irrelevant and thus unnecessary to reference. Only Generations bothered to use 06 content and that was only Crisis City.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Jun 11th 2024 at 11:50:20 AM

taotruths Live Jet Reaction (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
Live Jet Reaction
#78463: Jun 11th 2024 at 12:12:36 PM

Interview with Sonic Stadium and Iizuka

Key points:

  • Terios' addition as a skin was inspired by Superstar including the Rabbit skin
  • Shadow Generations will have one 3D and 2D act each stage
  • Each level in the game is built around Shadow's new powers and using chaos control
  • Ian Flynn is writing the Shadow Generations content
  • Frontiers, Superstars, and Shadow Generations were all concurrently developed around the same time
  • Shadow Generations uses like a few different versions of the Hedgehog Engine
  • Iizuka praises the IDW Characters and hopes to get a chance to have them appear in a game
  • The Embedded Precursor version of Sonic 1 is removed, but Casino Nights is in at the start

TheDarkMantis Shadow Bug from Ocean of Storms Since: Nov, 2017 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#78465: Jun 11th 2024 at 12:23:29 PM

...okay so while people were praising that "no 2D section" aspect of the Ark level, what we saw in the trailer of Kingdom Valley was very obviously 2D.

So he'll still have 2D levels, but...most likely there won't be any in the 3D stages.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
chino514 (Apprentice)
#78466: Jun 11th 2024 at 12:43:57 PM

Just had thought of it, is it about this time of year when we get a Sonic Central?

Rabbitearsblog Movie and TV Goddess from United States Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Movie and TV Goddess
#78467: Jun 11th 2024 at 12:58:40 PM

When does Sonic Central usually come out?

I love animation, TV, movies, YOU NAME IT!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#78468: Jun 11th 2024 at 1:01:21 PM

I take Sonic canon the same way I take comic book canon.

Which entries are canon? Whichever ones are relevant to the current story being told.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#78469: Jun 11th 2024 at 1:04:13 PM

[up]That's the best way to look at it. Everything (except for things like the Archie comics that are explicitly in a separate continuity) is canon, nothing (except maybe the main games) is canon. If a new game wants to use some obscure plot details from a single-stip comic released a decade ago, they will, and if they want to completely contradict it, then they will.

[down]I also look at it like that. The approach I mention is what I apply to the main universe, and then anything that doesn't fit into that is counted as part of the multiverse.

Edited by king15 on Jun 11th 2024 at 8:50:35 AM

neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#78470: Jun 11th 2024 at 1:33:04 PM

My view is that everything is canon to the Sonic Multiverse but each tv series, comics, movie and game series takes place in their own universe. Like Transformers has everything be a canon part of the multiverse but each Transformers series is it own universe.

"May your heart be your guiding key"
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#78471: Jun 11th 2024 at 1:37:40 PM

[up] Don't let Penders hear you say that. He probably thinks he owns the concept of a Sonic-focused multiverse.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#78472: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:27:58 PM

IDW is already referenced in Frontiers, and three (4) of its characters are in games by this point.

The reason why it can be taken as canon mostly has to do with the staff working on them. Flynn is there, so of course he will push for IDW.

Maekawa kind of did this before, only that he pushed for Knuckles being considered a treasure hunter, a job that doesn't make sense outside of the OVA continuity. At least IDW doesn't require a lot of continuity beyond the Continuity Snarl of what the hell was Zavok doing in Team Sonic Racing.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#78473: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:36:13 PM

I'm not sure why Shadow Generations has 2-D acts, since that's never really been a big Shadow thing. But I guess its what they know. As long as the game's fun, I have no complaint.

And I think Sonic Generations did do some genuinely cool stuff with its 2-d levels to be fair. Its take on the City Escape truck was fun. Using 2-d to turn Seaside Hill into the game's version of Labyrinth Zone made sense. Hah! And the tornado in Crisis City stealing the goal post was genius, loved it!

If some of the creatives of the original Generations really have been brought on for this, hopefully there's a lot of cool stage design choices this time around as well.

I wonder if Shadow Generations will still have a similar structure to Challenge Acts as Sonic Generations, if they are still a thing here?

Edited by diddyknux on Jun 11th 2024 at 4:37:43 AM

The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion Long time lurker from a deep dark hole Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Long time lurker
#78474: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:38:27 PM

This is the first time hearing about 2-d in the Shadow campaign, were did you here about this?

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#78475: Jun 11th 2024 at 2:52:18 PM

Here. On this forum. Just a few posts above. Linked by taotruths.

https://www.sonicstadium.org/news/features/interviews/takashi-iizuka-on-sonic-teams-expansion-and-shadows-evolving-motivations-tss-interview-r2254/

Quoting taotruths:

Interview with Sonic Stadium and Iizuka

Key points:

Terios' addition as a skin was inspired by Superstar including the Rabbit skin

Shadow Generations will have one 3D and 2D act each stage

Each level in the game is built around Shadow's new powers and using chaos control

Ian Flynn is writing the Shadow Generations content

Frontiers, Superstars, and Shadow Generations were all concurrently developed around the same time

Shadow Generations uses like a few different versions of the Hedgehog Engine

Iizuka praises the IDW Characters and hopes to get a chance to have them appear in a game

The Embedded Precursor version of Sonic 1 is removed, but Casino Nights is in at the start


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