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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#78276: Jun 3rd 2024 at 3:54:23 AM

Cream is among a cast of children, but she's specifically the child-coded character. She fights with a tiny pet, wears big flowy dresses, has soft expressions and traits, talks in a high-pitched voice in the English version, and her goals have largely been selfish and relatively low-stakes (save her Mom, find Chocola, support Amy and Blaze). On top of her being somewhat of a pacifist, or at least non-violent.

Character development like what we got from Sonic Battle could fix that, but Status Quo Is God. At best she'll be around for Free Riders and similar racing titles.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#78277: Jun 3rd 2024 at 6:14:53 AM

Cream being considered a civilian is almost certainly a result of X not letting her fight at all.

The only time the games really do that is in that one mission in Shadow the Hedgehog, I think. Almost every other time you see Cream, she's part of the action.

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#78278: Jun 3rd 2024 at 6:50:22 AM

I must say, I kind of like the idea of a 'civilian' character. The games tried to make Tails that character for a bit (reaching its nadir in Forces), but I don't think he suits the role as well as Cream, though I get why fans of her might disagree and prefer for her to be in on the action.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#78279: Jun 3rd 2024 at 6:55:21 AM

Cream isn't "in the action" in Rush either...

Not even an Olympics participant.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
KaoticKanine from Vania of Pencils Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#78280: Jun 3rd 2024 at 7:21:10 AM

[up][up][up]That was true of the first two seasons of Sonic X. But Season 3 would have Cream join the heroes in a long adventure through space to find the Chaos Emeralds and defeat the Metarex, and even get involved in multiple fights (both in-person and in her own little ship). There was even an episode where Vector tried to bring Cream back home to Vanilla on the basis of "she's a little kid", the entire cast heavily disagreed with him; arguing that Cream was of valuable help in the fight against the Metarex. So this whole civilian treatment is really weird regardless...

[up][up]I mean, you're not wrong that Cream suits the civilian role better than Tails. But I think that role is best suited for Big than any other character. This Sonic Channel story made it clear that Cream likes to go on adventures, and her bio in 'Sonic's Fast Friends' even stated that Cream would gleefully join the heroes when the opportunity arises. Big is much more averse to adventuring and action, preferring to fish with Froggy and nothing else. Heck, Big's story in Adventure 1 was basically the series exploring the perspective of a civilian caught up in one of Sonic's adventures, just as Gamma's story explored the POV of the average Mecha-Mooks of Eggman's. At the very least, it's no coincidence that Cream was a much more recurring character in the 2000's, complete with multiple playable appearances, while Big back then was only playable in Adventure 1 and Heroes, with him being a cameo character every other time.

MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#78281: Jun 3rd 2024 at 7:24:23 AM

Mostly thanks to people liking Cream compared to Big. Which is sad since Big is a nice guy really.

Are explosions science?
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#78282: Jun 3rd 2024 at 7:31:08 AM

Big's great, but maybe better in small doses than as a main character.

KaoticKanine from Vania of Pencils Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#78283: Jun 3rd 2024 at 7:41:13 AM

[up][up]Really? According to the entry for Americans Hate Tingle in the series' own YMMV page, Cream was hated almost as much as Big in the 2000's. At least by Western fans. But I certainly remember Cream being one of the more disliked characters at the time. Maybe less so than Big, but the gap wasn't large at all.

But yeah, Big is a nice character. Way better than he's given credit for. But all the same, I think Big works better in small doses; appearing as a background or minor character most of the time, with the occasional major roles (such as Heroes). The Archie Comics attempted to make Big into more of a main character with the Reboot, and while it wasn't without good moments, it just didn't feel right.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#78284: Jun 3rd 2024 at 7:56:16 AM

Well, because I was a hater all around, I think I can explain the dislike towards Cream: because she is cute and girly, and has a cute design, therefore, people didn't vibe with that. The 2000's was known for anime fans hating Moe, so it's no surprise Cream was affected by it, and so were Amy (to an extent, folks had other problems with her), and Big (although folks focused on his low intelligence).

It is funny in hindsight Cream got hated, because many cartoons young sisters were known to be geniune unlikeable brats, and she was the complete opposite of those.

Because cultural values have changed, I can see Cream being more accepted these days, but I don't see little boys liking her much compared with the others. Little boys can like princesses (in my anecdotal experience with Disney), but not all of them. When I was a boy I remember loving Mulan, but I was very indifferent to Ariel and the others, focusing much more on the villains.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
KaoticKanine from Vania of Pencils Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#78285: Jun 3rd 2024 at 9:17:40 AM

So essentially, Cream's poor reception was a case of having debuted in this franchise at the worst time for a character of her archetype... I swear, that just sums up a lot of the "attitude" of the 2000's; the characters/concepts are fine, if not good. People were just not in the mood for them. :/ Well, the less than stellar executions didn't help, but people really overreacted

Part of me now wants to think that Cream would've fared better if she had debuted later. But then, I don't think Cream would've left as much of an impression if she were introduced in the 2010's, when the whole ensemble cast was being pushed back in favor of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy. And she definitely wouldn't have been established as a major character at all if introduced after the 2000's.

Poor girl just can't win, no matter what. sad

Edited by KaoticKanine on Jun 3rd 2024 at 12:45:20 PM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#78286: Jun 3rd 2024 at 9:27:06 AM

What about the classic era?

KaoticKanine from Vania of Pencils Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#78287: Jun 3rd 2024 at 9:40:57 AM

...Okay, now that you mention that, Cream very likely could've fared better if she had debuted in the Classic era lol Classic Sonic admittedly gels with Cream's character a lot better, being more lighthearted and "cutesy". And far as I know, Moe characters weren't disliked at the time (at least not compared to the 2000's, where edge was all the rage). Cream also would've benefited from the seniority of being a Classic character, being more of a mainstay as Knuckles and Amy are.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#78288: Jun 3rd 2024 at 9:58:58 AM

Am I the only person who wishes Sega made a sequel to Lost World instead of Forces? Lost World is a mixed bag, but had so many cool ideas and a lot of potential. A sequel with more focus and tighter design could be great.

Of all the many attempts Sonic Team made to do the whole "how can we translate 2D Sonic gameplay directly into 3D" thing, I think Lost World had probably the best ideas for that even if the game itself wasn't great.

And, like, with the sheer amount of subpar "first try" games where Sonic Team is just throwing ideas against the wall without regard for how good it ended up. If we can forgive Unleashed, we can probably forgive Lost World.

Sid-Starkiller Since: Jan, 2021
#78289: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:05:30 AM

But Unleashed was a "first try" because Sega was trying to leave behind the Adventure era as fully as possible. Getting away from 06 made sense. But Lost World came after increasingly well-received games. People generally liked Generations, and Unleashed daytime and Colors were clearly building toward it mechanically. Why ditch that?

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#78290: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:11:02 AM

I think they feared that the fanbases, known for being very picky might not like the boost gameplay unanimous and tried something they though would get all the praise.

Then that backfired hard and they gave up on both that and trying to win back the sword, then Forces happened and they were in so much of a slump that they decided to do an alt playstyle again but with boost. Frontiers seems to be the result.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:11:46 AM

KaoticKanine from Vania of Pencils Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#78291: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:21:16 AM

While I don't know the definitive answer, I can gather that Sonic Team wanted to try and find an alternative to the Boost gameplay of Unleashed, Colors, and Generations because, well-received as it was, it's not really sustainable to continue.

Because the thing about the Boost is that it warrants making each level in a game huge to accommodate how fast the Boost makes Sonic move. And no matter what, those massive levels gets cleared in about five minutes. That's a lot of time and money being spent for such short experiences, and for that reason Sonic Team added in some Padding to make those Boost games last a little bit longer, such as the Werehog/Sun and Moon Medals of Unleashed, the platform-heavy 2D sections of Colors, and Classic Sonic of Generations.

Granted, I guess that has always been a problem with Sonic; making massive levels to accommodate how fast the characters move, especially in 3D spaces. But the Boost certainly accentuates this problem, and it'd be no surprise that Sonic Team/SEGA wanted to ditch it ASAP

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#78292: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:29:43 AM

Sonic Team rotated out a bunch of a staff between Generations and Lost World, so the most convincing speculation I've heard is that they made Lost World so different because it was so much of the staff's first time making a Sonic game, they weren't used to working with whatever engines or programs previous games used, and it would even harder to make a boost game on the less powerful Wii U (which they had to do because Sega made a deal with Nintendo requiring they put out 3 Wii U exclusive Sonic games), so they just decided to try something different.

As for Lost World itself, I think the gameplay is mostly fine actually. I would even go as far as to say it's inherently better than boost gameplay. Its biggest issue is just that it doesn't really look or feel very "Sonic-like". There's a reason a lot of people online accuse the game of aping Mario Galaxy. Also, needing to hold down a trigger just to run is kind of weird and awkward.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#78293: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:58:08 AM

When Cream was introduced I was wary cause I was worried she was replacing Amy (I didn't know she was a secret Advance 2 character) but I warmed up to her once they both appeared together, and their lil sis/big sis dynamic was very cute.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#78294: Jun 3rd 2024 at 9:41:40 PM

I still maintain the opinion that the Boost style would be a perfect candidate to convert into a racing game.

It instantly solves the content issue because now you're expected to race on these racetracks repeatedly due to racing other real people, allowing them to focus more on quality than quantity, without needing to add padding.

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#78295: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:15:49 PM

Team Sonic Racing has boosting...not with a button. Just with boostpads, drifts, slingshots, and stunts...

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#78296: Jun 3rd 2024 at 10:38:31 PM

...a turbo and/or nitro function wouldn't be an innovative feature to add to a racing game.

But Sonic is in the Mario Kart territory with items, so that wouldn't really mesh very well.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#78297: Jun 3rd 2024 at 11:48:32 PM

First time I saw Cream was in the Mega Collection art section. Wondered who the heck this new character was. Then I rebought Adventure as the DX port, and saw her there, which peaked my interest. I thought she was a seamless addition to Amy's group when I got to Heroes.

Never had a Gameboy Advance, so didn't know about the Advance games aside from the trailer in Mega Collection.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#78298: Jun 4th 2024 at 3:33:19 AM

About wanting the boost gameplay in a racing game... that's Sonic Riders.

Goddammit Free Riders.

ElementX Since: Jan, 2001
#78299: Jun 5th 2024 at 3:24:39 PM

He just like us fr.

I wonder if they got permission from Sega to air that or if they just decided to do it and hope Sega would be cool about it? [lol]

taotruths Live Jet Reaction (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
Live Jet Reaction
#78300: Jun 5th 2024 at 3:35:53 PM

I'm fairly sure that with every single sega reference made in this (the show made a reference to sega losing the console wars and the uncle was rooting for the sega mega drive) there's probably a sponsorship cut/permissions

Edited by taotruths on Jun 5th 2024 at 3:36:40 AM


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