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ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#77176: Feb 4th 2024 at 3:37:02 AM

I won't deny that they aren't designed well from an accessibility perspective, but some of them I'm more fine with than others. For example, all 3 Sonic Advance games have special stages I enjoy. In those games, it's getting to them that's the real pain.

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neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#77177: Feb 4th 2024 at 3:38:19 AM

I dislike the get X amount of rings special stages.

"May your heart be your guiding key"
VapourSoulOS Herald of Lunar Tierce from You really expect me to know that? Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Herald of Lunar Tierce
#77178: Feb 4th 2024 at 4:38:48 AM

Sonic Heroes had the worst Special Stages in the series. Try having to spend an entire level not taking damage just to access the Special Stage then having to chase after the Chaos Emerald with poor controls and janky physics. (It's a good thing that you only have to get the Chaos Emeralds once and you can use any team for this.)

I'd say they're bad enough that I actually consider their reappearance in Sonic Generations to be an improvement in every way. The runner up for worst Special Stages are the ones from the 3DS version of Sonic Lost World due to the motion controls and no option to change them for the D-Pad.

Edited by VapourSoulOS on Feb 4th 2024 at 12:39:10 PM

"Punishment is not the answer. Punishment is easy. It's lazy. Redemption is hard. Redemption makes you work."-Skulduggery Pleasant
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#77179: Feb 4th 2024 at 6:14:44 AM

Sonic usually doesn't like racing, as confirmed in Sonic R.

But the reason cited is actually because he's so fast that he'll win easily.

So any competition where there's actually, well, competition, is going to be far more appealing to him.

This has always been my understanding with regards to why Sonic drives a car.

"Why wouldn't he just run though?" Because then it would be unfair to the other racers. Obviously. He's Sonic the Motherfucking Hedgehog. The fastest thing alive. If he's driving a car, he's not here to win; He's here to compete.

...I don't know how that got packaged with "Sonic hates cars" as noted on the last page. Why would Sonic hate cars? They enable him to compete. By all rights, he should love cars.

Sonic drives a car for the same reason Goku wears weighted clothing when sparring with his pals. And he enjoys it every bit as much.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 4th 2024 at 6:16:50 AM

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The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion Long time lurker from a deep dark hole Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Long time lurker
#77180: Feb 4th 2024 at 7:40:44 AM

[up]its from that one sonic short that took a cheap shot at sonic drift.

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#77181: Feb 4th 2024 at 8:49:06 AM

Also, most of the racing games have plots where Sonic's entering some official competition where it'd be cheating to not use whatever vehicle is being assigned.

It'd be like playing Punch Out and asking why Little Mac doesn't shoot his opponents.

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#77182: Feb 4th 2024 at 8:50:09 AM

Then again, there's Aran Ryan in there who doesn't give a shit about the rules so... tongue

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diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#77183: Feb 4th 2024 at 8:51:29 AM

Punch-Out might not be your best example. Little Mac doesn't cheat, but some other boxers certainly do.

...Sorry, not the point. I agree the idea that Sonic not running in these racing games needs an explanation beyond "cause its not a running race, its a kart/hover board/transformer race" is silly.

Edited by diddyknux on Feb 4th 2024 at 10:52:12 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#77184: Feb 4th 2024 at 11:24:38 AM

Third movie logo teaser.

Say it with me, LIVE AND LEARN... is in the teaser goddammit i hope it's in the actual movie too.

I think I can hear at least the "dun-dun-dun-DUN!" but I still need like a audio comparison video thing to help me hear it better.

Noah1 (It’s Ben 10) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#77185: Feb 4th 2024 at 11:34:50 AM

As far as the issue of Sonic driving a car goes, LEGO Dimensions put it succinctly:

Sonic: Not as fast as I'm used to, but at least I get to rest my legs!

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TheDarkMantis Shadow Bug from Ocean of Storms Since: Nov, 2017 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
Shadow Bug
#77186: Feb 4th 2024 at 11:36:18 AM

Re: Why Sonic Drives A Car

Should also keep in mind that he also willingly used Extreme Gear in the Riders games, even though he could still likely outrace everyone on his own two feet. He chooses to use the Gear instead to put himself on even footing with everyone else.

"That we continue to persist at all is a testament to our faith in one another."
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#77187: Feb 4th 2024 at 12:09:52 PM

Shadow even swaps out his skate shoes for competition-approved ones. [tup]

Edited by diddyknux on Feb 4th 2024 at 2:10:05 PM

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#77188: Feb 4th 2024 at 1:15:50 PM

"Why wouldn't he just run though?" Because then it would be unfair to the other racers. Obviously. He's Sonic the Motherfucking Hedgehog. The fastest thing alive.

Actually the idea that Sonic can effortlessly beat any racer is kind of a western marketing induced fanon. Various games like Sonic R, both Sonic Rivalstitles and many many multiplayer modes show other playable characters like Tails, Knuckles, Amy can keep up with Sonic, even if they can't match his pure top speed.

Like they have better traction and handling stats, and can fly/break stuff to find short cuts that Sonic cannot take.

I do imagine Sonic being able to easily win would be true with the more ordinary Sega characters like the Like a Dragon characters in Sega All-stars, though.

Sonic also needs to build to his top speed in most games. The idea of Sonic games isn't just pure speed I feel, but that if you know how to play, you can speedrun to the finish. I think that is what Naka or one of the developers said.

Should also keep in mind that he also willingly used Extreme Gear in the Riders games, even though he could still likely outrace everyone on his own two feet. He chooses to use the Gear instead to put himself on even footing with everyone else.

Besides what I said earlier about the other Sonic characters, with the possible exception of the Babylon Rogues and the Robot Mooks, keep in mind, Sonic is capable of using skates in the Riders game, thus allowing him to run.

Well except for Kinect.

But it is established that to be in the race, you have to use extreme gear.

Sure, Sonic could reach the finish line in this or any car competition on his feet, but then he'd be disqualified for breaking the race rules.

Imagine you're in a soap box or tubing competition, and someone just runs to the finish line and expects to receive the trophy?

Punch-Out might not be your best example. Little Mac doesn't cheat, but some other boxers certainly do.

I think there actually was a video on boxing rules broken in Punch Out, and Little Mac broke a few such as punching a foe in the back of the head.

Edited by Monsund on Feb 4th 2024 at 1:18:25 AM

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#77189: Feb 4th 2024 at 1:27:15 PM

We've been talking about Sonic vs cars for this long and no one mentioned the numerous times he raced against driver Sam Speed in Sonic X?

Edited by WillKeaton on Feb 4th 2024 at 2:27:21 AM

Grounder Main Character Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Main Character
#77190: Feb 4th 2024 at 1:28:48 PM

[up][up]Gameplay and Story Segregation.

It'd be no fun if Sonic was a win button in those games.

neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#77191: Feb 4th 2024 at 1:30:13 PM

Speaking of Sonic’s vehicles, have we ever learned how Sonic got the Tornado plane? He had the plane before he ever met Tails.

"May your heart be your guiding key"
Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#77192: Feb 4th 2024 at 1:33:38 PM

[up][up]Gameplay and Story Segregation.

It'd be no fun if Sonic was a win button in those games.

Are you sure about that, I mean its canon to Sonic 2 that Tails can keep up with Sonic's speed? Sonic Adventure's Tail story is all about racing Sonic.

Also Super Sonic was Win Button in Sonic R.

Grounder Main Character Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Main Character
#77193: Feb 4th 2024 at 1:43:47 PM

Sonic can lose to Rouge in Rivals 2, I'm pretty sure that she, Knuckles, and Silver would all struggle.

The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion Long time lurker from a deep dark hole Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Long time lurker
#77194: Feb 4th 2024 at 2:31:56 PM

[up][up]yeah Sonic is just not trying to outspeed tails but if Soinc and Shadow race then all bets are off.

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77195: Feb 4th 2024 at 3:00:04 PM

Speed comparisons in Sonic are a little tricky since the franchise doesn't super want to tie the characters down to rankings like that.

But on a gameplay level - I never got to play it all that much: how balanced was Sonic R? I've always figured the reason they never made a new Sonic R-style racing game for Sonic is because a concept like that is super hard to stage design and maintain balance for.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#77196: Feb 4th 2024 at 3:10:03 PM

[up] Been ages since I last played Sonic R, but I specifically remember the vehicles being clunky, and that Sonic and Metal Sonic were two of the better racers. Sonic's double jump at top speed let him cover deceptive ground and Metal was Metal. Not sure about others.

Edited by erazor0707 on Feb 4th 2024 at 5:12:02 AM

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#77197: Feb 4th 2024 at 3:14:52 PM

Sonic, Tails and Knuckles were about balanced with eachother, gliding and flight were a good way to gain speed. Same for Metal Sonic and I think Tails Doll was alright given his flight.

Eggman/Robotnik and Amy had Crippling Overspecialization and often relied on stuff like watery courses to gain an advantage when doing player versus player. Amy's boost could be useful, but Robotnik's ring powered gun was a mere novelty that wasn't useful at all.

Eggrobo was the worst character; only being able to hover over water for a limited time and slowing down when he went over it.

Super Sonic was Purposefully Overpowered and only Mecha Knuckles could rival him.

Also what do you mean by another Sonic R, do you mean another racing game with on-foot characters competing with in-vehicle characters?

Edited by Monsund on Feb 4th 2024 at 3:17:31 AM

neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#77198: Feb 4th 2024 at 3:16:47 PM

Sonic only really has trouble foot racing in new environments like low gravity and even then he soon gets use to the new environments.

[up]Metal Knuckles was in Sonic R not Mecha Knuckles.

Edited by neoamon on Feb 4th 2024 at 11:18:17 AM

"May your heart be your guiding key"
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#77199: Feb 4th 2024 at 3:23:49 PM

People have made jokes about how certain Sonic releases are great soundtracks that happen to come with games, but Sonic R is definitely one where the gulf between the OST and the gameplay itself is pretty wide. I actually do like it as an inherently interesting 5th generation novelty and as the prominent window into that underexplored Saturn era even when as a racing game for 1997 it was pretty undercooked.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77200: Feb 4th 2024 at 3:42:59 PM

Also what do you mean by another Sonic R, do you mean another racing game with on-foot characters competing with in-vehicle characters?

Basically. The only other time I can recall that we got an on-foot racing game for Sonic was the multiplayer mode in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, and looking that I always figured there was a good reason they usually just go with vehicles: the same mechanics that make Sonic's on-foot mechanics feel so good when done right also aren't great for competitive racing - making things too snowbally and hard to balance even when you're just doing it casually, and requiring levels ot be kind of... straightforward.


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