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BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#75776: Oct 5th 2023 at 8:24:35 AM

It's not just one aspect. And I even listed more than one aspect in my original complaint, so it seems like you're downplaying my distaste with the DLC. And of course you're free to disagree - if you like it, enjoy it.

But beyond the brutal challenge, there's also the fact that some collectibles are locked to specific characters. And some aspects of the story feel half-assed to me, like less thought was put into it. Meanwhile, Tails' airplane breaks his challenges, as I can just fly right over them with the plane and fly down as Tails.

I do like the music, but I have the soundtrack (including the expansion soundtrack), so I can listen to that independently.

Edited by BonsaiForest on Oct 5th 2023 at 11:25:25 AM

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#75777: Oct 5th 2023 at 8:26:17 AM

I just meant Rob's assesment that apparently that this update will ruin Sonic yet again, which reeks of premature judgment all by looking at your review instead of the rest.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#75778: Oct 5th 2023 at 8:27:32 AM

I hope the director is able to look at the overall reception of the core game and the super mixed reception the DLC's difficulty and design are getting, and use that for the next game to improve it further. Perhaps an "ultra hard mode" for the people who love that DLC's difficulty would be good as an option for them that most people will simply choose not to play.

Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#75779: Oct 5th 2023 at 9:23:42 AM

I mean, I overall found the increase in difficulty enjoyable - Frontiers base was disappointingly easy even on the hardest regular difficulty (Extreme helps, but has its own issues).

But one or two of the towers are definitely bullshit in the way they're designed, and the guardians in general really feel like the devs genuinely had no idea how to make a difficult combat encounter, so they really throw in all kinds of shit (even some Ghost layouts feel distinctly cheap for Sonic to deal with).

That's my take in regards to difficulty.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#75780: Oct 5th 2023 at 9:32:58 AM

I hope he receives the proper feedback.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Negaman Since: Aug, 2017
#75781: Oct 5th 2023 at 9:35:55 AM

Honestly, I played on easy.

It feels like a lot of people were still under the assumption of "Hork, dork, this so ÆZY! Hard only pretending at being challenging, hork! Zonic Tæm can't ðø diffæculty!" And letting their pride get in the way of doing anything about it (like changing their difficulty setting) when actual difficulty comes in. Choosing instead to overblow issues they have to make it seem like they're justified in their reactions.

Yeah, it's difficult, and yeah, there are legitimate issues (screw the Snake Trial and Wyvern). But a lot of the grousing I've seen (especially off site) just seem very performed or exaggerated. Especially those that try to paint this as the typical brainless doom nonsense that's typical of this fanbase with the most banal of things.

Again, I played on EASY the entire time and still had a blast despite the built in difficulty. Not even someone who's a challenge nut, either. I play most games on easy if I have the option. Fighting the Guardians and Cyber Space are practically optional on easy, I got about 27 Look Out Koco just by exploring and getting those Cyloop points.

And I played this on a First Generation Switch, BTW.

I think people forget that this is a game where you can go about things in whatever way you want. Yes, there's an intended way, but it's not the only way to go about things. I spent the base game doing practically everything, and Another Story just exploring and doing the challenges. Abused the heck out of the Starfall too, currently have everyone maxed out in levels and skills. The only thing I have left to do is Cyber Space. Heck, I collected enough Portal Gears to access Cyber Space without even needing to fight a single Guardian!

By the way, protip, that ball one, use a mix of Homing Attack, jumping from bellow the side (either one) in the exact direction of the rings (walk toward them), and jumping right on top of the ball the same way as above.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#75782: Oct 5th 2023 at 9:49:26 AM

Difficulty settings exist for more reasons than giving annoying people something to brag about. Play on Easy, turn it up if you want something more challengering.

Edited by Eriorguez on Oct 5th 2023 at 6:50:13 PM

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#75783: Oct 5th 2023 at 10:06:10 AM

I spent the base game doing practically everything, and Another Story just exploring and doing the challenges. Abused the heck out of the Starfall too, currently have everyone maxed out in levels and skills. The only thing I have left to do is Cyber Space. Heck, I collected enough Portal Gears to access Cyber Space without even needing to fight a single Guardian!

Actually, that's what I did too. I just didn't find it fun when playing Another Story, other than some of the platforming challenges in the world. I enjoyed quite a few of those.

Maybe I'll revisit it on Easy. (I lowered difficulty to Normal when I was in a Cyber Space level, 4-B, and saw no difference. I guess difficulty doesn't affect those?) For now, I'll just play through the rest of the main game and then move on to other games until Sonic Superstars and Super Mario Bros. Wonder come out.

Edited by BonsaiForest on Oct 5th 2023 at 1:07:09 PM

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#75784: Oct 5th 2023 at 10:10:46 AM

I compare the Final Horizon to Kingdom Hearts 3 Re Mind.

Both have extra story content that remixes the base games ending a bit, allows you to play as other characters, but also cranks up the difficulty a lot.

But both fall into the same trappings of said difficulty being caused by limiting options or expecting the players to play in certain ways that the base game didn't really prepare them for.

But I'd say Frontiers fares a little better in that regard because:

1) This is free DLC

2) They didn't suddenly add bullshit super armor to the bosses that you can only cause normal damage to them if you attack at a certain one frame opening that isn't even consistent.

3) You can lower the difficulty anytime

Edited by TheMageofFire on Oct 5th 2023 at 10:11:31 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#75785: Oct 5th 2023 at 10:50:48 AM

I’ve generally given both the main game of Frontiers and the DLC’s many design problems a pass because this is their first try with this gameplay model and they’re clearly trying to figure out its ins and outs, how to make it challenging vs easy, how to make engaging level and boss design, and how to balance that with what makes it fun.

It’s the exact same issue Unleashed had as the first Boost game, and I used to be really down on Unleashed until I realized I was being unfair to it, so I can’t in good faith be too hard on this game. It’s got serious problems and the DLC makes those problems a lot more obvious, but having these problems hopefully means they get hammered out in the next game.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#75786: Oct 5th 2023 at 10:58:42 AM

[up]

That is fair enough. All Sega has to do is improve on what they did here. In the meantime, Frontiers can still be enjoyed by everyone.

One Strip! One Strip!
Negaman Since: Aug, 2017
#75787: Oct 5th 2023 at 10:59:51 AM

[up] Exactly. All we can do is CALMLY AND CLEARLY express our thoughts, grievances, and criticisms in a constructive manner and hope that they're heard over the screeching.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#75788: Oct 5th 2023 at 11:03:22 AM

As far as I can see, we’re already doing that.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#75791: Oct 5th 2023 at 11:47:23 AM

It is awkward design though that "normal" has such flaws and clearly external elements (targetable balloons, specifically, for the towers) were not implemented in what I'd assume was the baseline design.

TBH, Tower 2 was more frustrating than hard, not helped by me not realizing easy added said external elements (since such things weren't in the base game either until a patch and I never had any reason to check regardless for base game).

My musician page
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#75792: Oct 5th 2023 at 12:13:52 PM

Tower 2 seems outright designed to be completed in easy rather than the other difficulty levels, tbh. The fact that the essential objects you need to complete it don’t respawn when you die is a tellingly bad design decision that sticks out both for that one and in one or two places in the later ones, but it’s especially bad in Tower 2.

It forces you to instead slowly tightrope walk across the remaining wireframes of large swaths of the tower to progress, which is exactly the kind of fast paced riveting gameplay that makes Sonic such a household name.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#75793: Oct 5th 2023 at 12:24:28 PM

[up]Which is why it bugs me from a design perspective; you'd think the baseline would be "Normal" and anything needed to not make it just plain frustrating would be in that base design.

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ElementX Since: Jan, 2001
#75794: Oct 5th 2023 at 12:36:30 PM

Sorry Rouge voters...

It was close though. And Infinite in a distant third where he belongs tongue

Edited by ElementX on Oct 5th 2023 at 3:37:35 PM

diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#75795: Oct 5th 2023 at 12:50:38 PM

Well maybe if they'd done this poll BEFORE Twitter started becoming X-tremely shit, there would've been more votes and Rouge could've won!

...

...

<Didn't vote at all>

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#75796: Oct 5th 2023 at 12:55:24 PM

If it’s any consolation, it was pretty close (except for Infinite lol). Sonic only won by 4%.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 5th 2023 at 12:55:59 PM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#75797: Oct 5th 2023 at 1:08:35 PM

I'm just glad Infinite lost again. Now let's hope that Warlock Infinite is worth the time in Speed Battle.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#75798: Oct 5th 2023 at 1:12:40 PM

Hypothetically, is there anyone Infinite COULD beat in a poll? Could he beat... I dunno... The Captain from the "Whose The Captain?" mission in Sonic 06?

...Shit, I could see the meme crowd voting for him, though. I think the meme crowd has kind of overtaken the "fuck that game" crowd in Sonic 06 discourse over the years.

Edited by diddyknux on Oct 5th 2023 at 3:13:28 AM

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#75799: Oct 5th 2023 at 1:23:21 PM

[up] I don't think he could beat Sonic Man either.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#75800: Oct 5th 2023 at 1:30:21 PM

Well, he defeated Cream.

By a mere 0,1%

And only because I took pity on an Infinite' fan, otherwise I wouldn't have voted.

If Sonic Man was competing, he would have won by a 69%.

Edited by Tomodachi on Oct 5th 2023 at 1:31:21 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

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