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General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#74877: Jul 11th 2023 at 3:51:53 PM

And as much as I love Metal Sonic, Sonic Team basically never uses him.
Metal Sonic has shown up a fair amount in the past decade. He was a boss in Generations and Forces, and he's been a playable character in every Olympic game and Team Sonic Racing. He just doesn't leave a big impression because he's not allowed to have voice lines or a personality anymore.

Rouge... I dunno, Prime aside, when's the last time she had a line in anything that wasn't a spinoff? Was she in Forces?
She was in Forces.
This sort of conversation about character relevance I think is affected by what people view as "recent" since it seems to differ. I think a lot of people are thinking of it only in terms of the past few years, but I think of recent as more like the past decade because well, Sonic stuff doesn't really come out very frequently anymore. Like, the only Sonic stuff to come out in the past 3 years are Frontiers, Murder, Prime, and the live-action movies. If we're only looking at stuff in that sort of range then there's not much to go off of in trying to make a judgement.

Edited by KuroBaraHime on Jul 11th 2023 at 6:51:58 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74878: Jul 11th 2023 at 4:17:39 PM

This sort of conversation about character relevance I think is affected by what people view as "recent" since it seems to differ.

No, it's based on "who do the writers actually use, and who is a core/vital member of each story" which is what being a main character vs a supporting character is all about.

There's some recency to it, but only in the sense that a character not being utilized in a major way in over a decade is a good indicator that they're not actually a main character.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 11th 2023 at 4:18:48 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#74879: Jul 11th 2023 at 4:18:16 PM

This is another conversation we've had a couple of times, too. I'm gonna look for where I counted each characters appearances, but in the meantime, the content put out after Generations mentions or features:

  • The games
    • Modern - Lost World, Forces, TSR, Frontiers, Murder: Lost World - the core four, Orbot and Cubot. Forces/Frontiers/Murder: Everyone except Cream (in Forces) and Gemerl (in all)
    • Classic - 4.II, Mania, Origins, Superstars: the core four, Mighty, Ray, the Hooligans, and the Heavies
  • The Olympics games: pretty much everyone modern except Gemerl
  • The auto-runners and Speed Simulator: pretty much everyone
  • The Boom continuity games and show: the core four, Shadow, Vector, Metal, Orbot and Cubot
  • Archie and/or IDW comics: everyone
  • The movies: the trio and Shadow

Including Superstars and Murder, there have been 8 fully new mainline games in the last 12 years, and several of them still reference supporting characters. The only character who has really been "gone" from the modern timeline games has been Gemerl. I think the closest series in nature to Sonic would be Mario. We don't expect Daisy, Pauline, and Rosalina to show up in every mainline game, right?

We've gotta remember this isn't like when they had Dimps and other teams, and alongside mainline games were putting out Advance/DS games, Rivals, Riders, and Storybook games.

I do Dimps and wish their games got collected and ported to Steam and other places, though. The last game they did for the franchise was Lost World 3DS. Since then, they've mostly moved on to take part in the development of well-received fighting games for Capcom and Bandai Namco, which is kind of a return to their roots.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jul 11th 2023 at 6:33:15 AM

BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#74880: Jul 11th 2023 at 4:18:46 PM

Honestly the best chances for the extended Sonic cast are modestly budgeted stuff like Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog; low key releases that allow them to be active without the financial pressure of being a AAA game. Games along those lines (that obviously wouldn't be free going forward) are the releases to take small risks on and maybe even experiment a little.

Maybe just try a Sonic title in the style of Night in the Woods just to see what a decent writer can do the with the characters featured.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74881: Jul 11th 2023 at 4:21:48 PM

Metal Sonic has shown up a fair amount in the past decade. He was a boss in Generations and Forces, and he's been a playable character in every Olympic game and Team Sonic Racing. He just doesn't leave a big impression because he's not allowed to have voice lines or a personality anymore.

This sort of conversation about character relevance I think is affected by what people view as "recent" since it seems to differ. I think a lot of people are thinking of it only in terms of the past few years, but I think of recent as more like the past decade because well, Sonic stuff doesn't really come out very frequently anymore. Like, the only Sonic stuff to come out in the past 3 years are Frontiers, Murder, Prime, and the live-action movies. If we're only looking at stuff in that sort of range then there's not much to go off of in trying to make a judgement.

Also Colors: Ultimate, which added Metal Sonic to a game he wasn't originally in.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74882: Jul 11th 2023 at 4:23:45 PM

Though it's worth noting that "is around, but doesn't have lines or a personality," is kind of what I'm talking about when it comes to being a main character vs being a supporting or minor character.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 11th 2023 at 4:25:26 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74883: Jul 11th 2023 at 4:32:50 PM

A character can show up a lot but have no significance whatsoever, conversely a character can show up infrequently but almost leaves some sort of impact.

Who is or isn't a main character varies, but we can make a pretty easy estimate on who Sega prioritizes over others.

I feel like the general consensus, based on promotional material and alternate media is that Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy are "the main" with Shadow not being too far behind that.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jul 11th 2023 at 7:34:26 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#74884: Jul 11th 2023 at 4:52:58 PM

@wanderlustwarrior What about Sonic The Comic characters? Sonic Underground characters?

"May your heart be your guiding key"
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#74885: Jul 11th 2023 at 6:33:16 PM

The Main 4 and the rival.

Thats Yugi's Team alright: Sonic as Yami, Tails as Joey, Amy as Tea and Knuckles as Tristán. And or course Shadow is Kaiba, but there is no Mokuba variant.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74886: Jul 11th 2023 at 6:42:24 PM

There was, but she's kind of dead.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Grounder Main Character Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Main Character
#74887: Jul 11th 2023 at 6:43:00 PM

[up][up][up]In the Comic case, I believe that the original writers own the characters (though I doubt any of them would be Kenders primadonnas about it).

In the case of Underground, Sonia did actually manage to slip into All-Stars Racing Transformed because the devs forgot to remove placeholder fanart.

But beyond that, they were made by DiC and thus SEGA has no intention of ever using them again.

EDIT: In case I misunderstood, most characters up to Adventure existed in Comic, and Underground randomly had Knuckles.

Edited by Grounder on Jul 11th 2023 at 6:49:26 AM

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#74888: Jul 12th 2023 at 1:20:40 AM

@ Grounder: The cynic in me believes the only reason they imply the Classic series was a different dimension from the Modern games in Sonic Forces is because they want both eras to be as separate from one another as possible or think the Classic series is hurt by Modern's reputation

ElementX Since: Jan, 2001
#74889: Jul 12th 2023 at 12:00:31 PM

Is Vector a DJ canonically? He needs to be.

[up] I don't think you're wrong, but I think Sega is trying hard to give the franchise a more cohesive identity as of late. That's why they're going back to the past explanation and then they'll just go with the branching timeline theory or whatever makes fans happy in the future.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#74890: Jul 12th 2023 at 12:16:04 PM

He is. There's one such bonus stage in Generations where he uses his skills to fire musical notes at you. ...Or maybe he does it by singing?
Is it weird that Vector and Rouge are some of my favorite characters above Knuckles and Shadow?

I really wish the Dimps games could get remastered and rereleased. Especially since that could give a reason to reintroduce Gemerl to fans. And it'd be a great way to address some of the issues those games had, with a wider screen, advance warning for bottomless pits, and more fair enemy placement. They could even do it in three trilogies:

  • Advance 1-3 (+Battle)
  • Rush, Rush Adventure, Colors
  • 4 (1/2/Metal), Generations, Lost World

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jul 12th 2023 at 2:28:47 PM

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#74891: Jul 12th 2023 at 12:40:25 PM

The real question, is Vector still canonically a good Christian boy like the Japanese Chaotix manual said?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74892: Jul 12th 2023 at 1:56:48 PM

Vector using the power of Christ to smite his enemies

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74893: Jul 12th 2023 at 2:12:15 PM

[up] Literally just did a spit take, holy crap.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2023 at 2:12:35 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74895: Jul 12th 2023 at 2:14:22 PM

Only for Eggman to be immune because he's an atheist.[lol]

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74896: Jul 12th 2023 at 2:25:12 PM

… that’s actually a good decent interesting question. Is Eggman’s religious?

He believes in gods enough to keep seeking them out and trying to make business deals with them. But then, he’s known enough gods to know most of them aren’t all they’re cracked up to be.

In before Eggman is revealed be a Scientologist.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2023 at 2:25:27 AM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#74897: Jul 12th 2023 at 2:48:56 PM

Eggman and the cast are theists: they know deities exist because they saw them. However, only Vector is canonically (through a manual) religious.

Maybe Eggman isn't even a full theist, and see the countless monsters he try to take control over as powerful creatures he can control.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
CausativeDust Since: Apr, 2021
#74898: Jul 12th 2023 at 7:16:13 PM

Hasn't it been long proven that Vector's "Sign of God" thing was a Blues Brothers reference, and that he's was never actually religious?

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#74899: Jul 12th 2023 at 7:33:05 PM

No, I don't think so. The only reference I can find about this is on Google are a line in the Sonic wiki and some Reddit posts speculating that's the case because Vector had a Blues Brothers-like outfit in super early concept art (from when they were thinking having Sonic be in a band). I don't think anything was outright confirmed about it. And really, it's an obscure enough detail that I don't think anyone would have ever asked any of the creators about it in an interview or Q&A to confirm it.

And it doesn't exactly change anything from an in-universe perspective, if the manual says he believes in God then he believes in God, regardless of if it's a veiled reference to a movie.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#74900: Jul 12th 2023 at 7:42:33 PM

[up]Does he though?

Sure, the manual said it, but the manual said a lot of things. If it wasn't mentioned in the games themselves, how can we be sure it's true?

Edited by kkhohoho on Jul 12th 2023 at 9:42:51 AM


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