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KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
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#74176: Jun 12th 2023 at 10:32:16 AM

I haven't seen anyone dis Ohshima specifically, just his company Arzest because they do have a pretty lackluster track record.

Relatedly, I found this image of the average Sonic pre-release hype cycle.
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/1686450424537.png

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#74177: Jun 12th 2023 at 10:42:33 AM

I actually got to play CD for the first time recently, courtesy of Origins.

The whole "Find the bot maker in the Past" thing is a cool idea, but Sonic levels aren't really made to be explored in that sort of way. It's not a game design that really lends itself well to moving backwards and vertically combing every inch of the level in search of one particular thing.

However, that ultimately didn't hamper my enjoyment too much, because at the end of the day, the bot makers are optional. They offer a means to reach the good ending and can open up the Good Future of a given level, but you can also fall back on time-tested "Collect the magic gems in bonus stages" and be no worse off. That was a good idea.

As a result, it can feel rewarding to find those bot makers, but they aren't pull-your-hair-out mandatory if you want the good ending.

There's really no reason to ever visit Bad Future. But I think that adds a bit of complexity to the game. Until you find the bot maker, Future Signs are basically a hazard. They're like negative power-ups: They force the player to pay attention and make mindful choices. But once you do find the bot maker, Future Signs flip on their axis and become the ticket to a calm and relaxing level.

It's pretty neat. I can see why the game's considered a classic.

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MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
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#74178: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:03:45 AM

Its a nice design. Although sometimes the Botmakers require some weird decisions, like the compressor in Wacky Workbench.

Also which OST did you use?

Are explosions science?
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74179: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:05:13 AM

Sonic CD had limited distribution for so long that it basically gained a sort of mystical reputation in the fandom.

Very few people owned a Sega CD to play it, and it's only modern release before 2011 was on a Game Cube exclusive title in Gems collection.

So people hyped it up as this grand amazing game, probably mostly judging it by its opening animation as opposed to the actual game itself.

It was only after when it got ported to modern consoles that people could play it regularly and it kind of suffered some Hype Backlash as a result after years of veneration.

Now it's generally considered the worst classic game, but still a good game overall.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74180: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:06:19 AM

Now it's generally considered the worst classic game

Huh? By who? I've literally never heard this before.

I would imagine that would've been Sonic 1, since it's such a clear "first try" for the franchise.

Very few people owned a Sega CD to play it, and it's only modern release before 2011 was on a Game Cube exclusive title in Gems collection.

It was also available for PC throughout the 90's.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 12th 2023 at 11:11:04 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
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#74181: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:12:20 AM

[up]I think there's a bit of Sacred Cow surrounding the very first game, which isn't extended CD.

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Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#74182: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:13:03 AM

[up][up]Yeah I’d have to agree that time has been the meanest to Sonic 1 overall

[up] Gonna disagree on that. There’s been a lot of shade thrown on Sonic 1 due to levels like Marble and Labyrinth Zone going against the appeal of Sonic in the first place.

Edited by Pokesamus on Jun 12th 2023 at 11:14:41 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#74183: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:15:55 AM

Also which OST did you use?

...presumably whichever one's default because I didn't realize you could change soundtracks.

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74184: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:16:47 AM

Both OST are pretty dope regardless, though "which OST is good and which one is trash" is probably the oldest and most tenured of the Sonic fanbase's many silly arguments.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#74185: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:18:06 AM

I don't have a great ear for music so my thoughts on Sonic soundtracks pretty much begin and end at, "Man, those lyrical songs they put into modern Sonic games sure are great."

I have no idea what "hanging on the edge of tomorrow" means but I sure do get excited when I hear it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 12th 2023 at 11:19:09 AM

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74186: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:19:52 AM

I can understand that. Though I'd totally recommend giving either soundtrack a listen on their own if you like funk, disco, pop or instrumental hip hop.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
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#74187: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:38:12 AM

Sonic 1 is the first game so people are generally kinder to it.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74188: Jun 12th 2023 at 11:52:58 AM

[up][up][up]

If it's something you can hum to yourself, or gets you pumped up during battle, or just sounds good, it's a good tune.

This is of course, subjective, but still.

One Strip! One Strip!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#74189: Jun 12th 2023 at 12:18:21 PM

As much I don't care the exploratory nature of CD (it's ultimately built for a more dedicated sonic fan than me for replay enjoyability) I still have to rank CD as notably better than Sonic 1. As much as sonic 1's first zone totally gets it, the rest of that game just doesn't know how to be sonic yet.

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
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#74190: Jun 12th 2023 at 12:40:21 PM

I've seen the opinion that Sonic 1 doesn't hold up that well quite a few times. And I agree. I never liked it much even as a kid. Sonic just feels stiffer to control than any later game and the levels after Green Hill are filled with awkward platforming and instant death traps, and Labyrinth Zone is the worst water level in the series. Zones going on for 3 acts can also get kind of tedious. Sonic 2 improves on the feel and level design quite a lot and cuts the zones down to 2 acts each but with more zones. I rather like CD's exploratory elements because it's set up in a way where it's kind of a puzzle to figure out how to get Sonic to a specific part of the level. And Sonic 3 feels like they mostly got things just right with levels feeling fair but still putting up more resistance than CD's level often do.

As far as classic-style games go I would rank them
3&K > Mania > CD > Pocket Adventure > 2 >>> 1 >>> Chaotix

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74191: Jun 12th 2023 at 12:46:42 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen! I have discovered the real reason why Sonic Forces bombed.

Because it didn't have Cream the Rabbit in a tank.

I guess she and Vanilla spent so much time arguing about it that the war was over.

One Strip! One Strip!
mstorzil Crimson Helios Since: Nov, 2019
Crimson Helios
#74192: Jun 12th 2023 at 1:04:12 PM

[up] What? That makes no sense at all.

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ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#74193: Jun 12th 2023 at 1:05:32 PM

[up]I think it was a joke.

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Vertigo_High Since: May, 2010
#74194: Jun 12th 2023 at 1:11:59 PM

Sonic 2 seems to be favored over sonic 1 from what I've seen. And Sonic 3&K just as much even moreso.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#74195: Jun 12th 2023 at 1:14:27 PM

Sonic 2 was the only one I actually owned as a child. A friend had Sonic 1, nobody had Sonic CD, and I rented 3 and & K separately from Blockbuster so I never really got the full experience of either.

Origins was super fun, in that regard. I got to be like, "Ohhhh, so this is what my Sonic experience was supposed to be like."

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NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#74196: Jun 12th 2023 at 1:20:04 PM

[up]Well the Origins version of 3 has worse music. So it's still not really the true way to play. :P

BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#74197: Jun 12th 2023 at 1:46:12 PM

Generally from what I've seen Sonic 1 is acknowledged as flawed, but the goodwill towards Green Hill and certain other parts goes a long way in softening people's thoughts about it (as does having the spin dash as an option in so many contemporary versions of it).

CD is certainly respected and both soundtracks have gained new appreciation, but the level design is such an acquired taste that liking it comes down to how much people are willing to change how they typically play Sonic titles when experiencing it.

2 vs. 3&K is interesting because the former tends to be the favorite of the mass audience while the latter is typically seen as the strongest by the fandom itself.

Across the board it probably averages out to 2 and 3&K battling it out for number one of the classic titles with CD and 1 more often ending up third or fourth ranking wise.

Edited by BorneAgain on Jun 12th 2023 at 4:46:50 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74199: Jun 12th 2023 at 1:53:30 PM

Ita clearly Sonic Blast for the game gear.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#74200: Jun 12th 2023 at 1:56:14 PM

No its clearly Sonic 4 /thread


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