TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

Go To

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#73501: May 8th 2023 at 6:52:39 AM

[up][up] That explains my surprise when I saw this the other day. My friend and I would've picked Adventure 2 or Generations for best-selling 3D Sonic game.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73502: May 8th 2023 at 7:01:00 AM

Hyper Sonic made sense for what it was: A Super Duper Sonic form where players could collect the Emeralds and go Super despite already having the Emeralds and being Super. It's an artifact of Sonic 3 & Knuckles being broken into two games and needing to have two sequential sets of Emerald/Super Sonic minigames and transformations. So there isn't really anything that distinguishes Super from Hyper.

Super Sonic is completely invulnerable and infinity powerful, and Hyper Sonic is even more invulnerable-er and infinity times infinity powerful to the power of infinity. Super Sonic's already so absurdly OP that the only way to make Hyper Sonic meaningful as a recurring fixture of the brand would be to degrade Super Sonic.

The only way to make Hyper Sonic work is by introducing enemies who are too powerful for Super Sonic and need a game-ending ultimate power-up to defeat. But Super Sonic's already the game-ending ultimate power-up for defeating too powerful threats. So that would feel less like serial escalation and more like powering down Super Sonic to the point that the concept loses its value.

We do not want Super Sonic to become what Super Saiyan became: an unspecial, totally mundane baseline for Sonic that can't accomplish anything and always gets its teeth kicked in to warrant pursuit of increasingly stronger forms.

I'd rather see the series pursue horizontal escalation in the form of giving us chances for Super Tails, Super Amy, Super Rouge, etc. to appear, rather than vertical escalation in the form of Super Sonic God Super Sonic Potential Unleashed x20.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 8th 2023 at 7:02:52 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#73503: May 8th 2023 at 7:10:22 AM

Tell that to people wanting Sonic to be DBZ so bad.

Are explosions science?
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#73504: May 8th 2023 at 7:15:37 AM

After Super Ray and Super Mighty 5 years ago, Super Tails being redefined to work with the Chaos Emeralds 6 years ago (with the Super Emerald-powered one being renamed as Hyper Tails last year), and the incoming DLC, I expect Super Amy to be a thing next month.

But, yeah, story-related non-Sonic Supers haven't been a thing since 2007. Super Shadow was a thing in SEGA All Star Racing, and poor Super Silver has only appeared once.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#73505: May 8th 2023 at 7:46:17 AM

[up][up]Probably not in that exact way.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#73506: May 8th 2023 at 7:50:50 AM

Of course, the corollary is that if you go through the whole game already needing Super Sonic for the regular bosses, then a final boss who is supposed to be the biggest threat Sonic has ever facednote  who can be taken out with the same level of power does not live up to the hype.

Never mind the gameplay change making it not really feel like Sonic taking it on at all.

My musician page
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#73507: May 8th 2023 at 8:00:05 AM

Sega won't even allow Super Tails and Knuckles to appear anymore in non-"classic" games. I doubt Super Amy will be a thing anytime soon even though she technically fits the "hedgehogs only" rule.

Edited by PhiSat on May 8th 2023 at 9:00:46 AM

Oissu!
neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#73508: May 8th 2023 at 8:05:49 AM

When there's a boss that Sonic can't beat with the power of Super Sonic by himself, then he just teams up with his past self, his friends, his allies or Robotnik.

So as much as I want Hyper Sonic to return, I don't think it will happen.

Edited by neoamon on May 8th 2023 at 4:14:01 PM

"May your heart be your guiding key"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73509: May 8th 2023 at 9:22:24 AM

Frontiers does kind of set up the expectation since the regular bosses require Super Sonic, so naturally you'd assume the final boss to require something above that.

So there is merit to wanting a power higher than Super Sonic given the context.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#73510: May 8th 2023 at 9:25:53 AM

Yeah, the previous games where Super Sonic alone wasn't enough still didn't have an intermediate threat where Super Sonic alone was enough, making the leap in power still sufficiently climactic.

My musician page
Teamkirin5 Soft Boi from You don't need to know. Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Soft Boi
#73511: May 8th 2023 at 9:47:31 AM

My Genre Savvy self expected that if the regular bosses required the normally game-ending Super Sonic to defeat, then the final boss would be able to inflict The Worf Effect on said game-ending Super Sonic, and he'd need something even stronger to win.

We all have to answer to the call of fate when it beckons us, even if it is not at a moment of our choosing.
neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#73512: May 8th 2023 at 10:00:39 AM

[up]He did. He needed a team up with Sage and the SUPREME Titan.

"May your heart be your guiding key"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73513: May 8th 2023 at 10:03:49 AM

Trust me, nothing good lies down that road. You do not want the Sonic brand to start treating Super Sonic and Hyper Sonic and Ultra Sonic and Sonicest Sonic as power levels that can be trumped by whatever the new, more powerful bad guy is.

Once you establish finite limitations for Super Sonic that need a stronger transformation to overcome, you open the door to a lot of shonen bullshit while eliminating what makes Super Sonic special in the first place.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 8th 2023 at 10:04:08 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Teamkirin5 Soft Boi from You don't need to know. Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Soft Boi
#73514: May 8th 2023 at 10:04:14 AM

[up]x2 What I was thinking of was a new form, or a possible return of Hyper Sonic (the former seemed more likely than the latter to me given the cyber-corruption plotline).

Edited by Teamkirin5 on May 8th 2023 at 3:30:42 PM

We all have to answer to the call of fate when it beckons us, even if it is not at a moment of our choosing.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73515: May 8th 2023 at 10:06:03 AM

Yeah, and that's exactly what we want to avoid. "Super Sonic sucks, only Hyper Sonic can win" is the stepping stone to "Hyper Sonic sucks, only Ultimate Sonic can win" is the stepping stone to "Ultimate Sonic sucks, only God Sonic can win" is the stepping stone to "God Sonic sucks, only Omni Sonic can win," etc. etc.

That is exactly what we do not want to happen. We have a perfectly fine Super Form as is.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 8th 2023 at 10:06:27 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#73516: May 8th 2023 at 10:08:33 AM

That's what they were saying would be a bad idea. Whether you call it Hyper Sonic, or Maximum Over-Sonic, or Super Sonic Grade 2, Super Sonic 2, Super Sonic 3, Great Golden Hedgehog, Super Sonic 4, Super Sonic God, Super Sonic God Super Sonic, Super Sonic God Super Sonic with Wisp Powers x10, Ultra Instinct Sonic, Mastered Ultra Instinct Sonic...

Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#73517: May 8th 2023 at 10:16:07 AM

Eh I really don’t think that reintroducing Hyper Sonic is the floodgate opener that you all think it is.

neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#73518: May 8th 2023 at 10:19:39 AM

Ultra Sonic from the Archie Sonic Comics?

"May your heart be your guiding key"
Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#73519: May 8th 2023 at 10:33:38 AM

Well the Archie comics didn’t even use Hyper Sonic from what I could tell. So I’m just gonna treat Ultra like their Hyper Sonic, and point out that the ultra form showed up like four times.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73520: May 8th 2023 at 11:08:02 AM

Power Creep is annoying when it's unmanaged. There's nothing wrong with escalating stakes, but you need to do it in a way that doesn't invalidate what came before.

Introducing Hyper Sonic just as a better Super Sonic completely renders the latter redundant and useless, which is exactly what happened with the various transformations with Dragon Ball where every new form is better than the last despite the new form being considered the strongest thing ever. It opens the floodgates.

That being said, Frontiers could have easily had a final boss that properly escalated the stakes in a way that makes sense. Given Sonic's line before the fight, we could have had the dead spirits of the Koco all empowering Sonic in some way to fight The End.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#73521: May 8th 2023 at 11:10:08 AM

In past games, Sonic's had alternate super modes that aren't Super Sonic But More, but are rather just more specialized and/or thematic so [up] would work.

My musician page
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#73522: May 8th 2023 at 11:13:15 AM

[up][up]They did. They empowered Supreme piloted by Sage.

Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73524: May 8th 2023 at 11:22:22 AM

[up][up] This might be because Frontiers is absolutely piss poor at telling its story but...nothing suggests that?

Sage possess Supreme and the fight starts from there. Aside from Sonic's line, there's nothing to show what is actually happening.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#73525: May 8th 2023 at 12:17:31 PM

Each time a TITAN was defeated, a cutscene showed that the souls of the Ancients were still tied to it. One didn't happen for SUPREME, which wasn't completely destroyed like the others. It's reasonable to infer that that connection is still there.

The only thing that wasn't conveyed was how Sonic was contributing to the fight with THE END, if he was charging SUPREME or what.


Total posts: 84,033
Top