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WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#73226: Apr 22nd 2023 at 7:30:00 PM

Now that it's been pointed out, that does seem to be what they were going for, even if it's not totally logical.

Rabbitearsblog Movie and TV Goddess from United States Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Movie and TV Goddess
#73227: Apr 22nd 2023 at 8:09:46 PM

I do wonder what the Conductor meant when he said that he promised that he will stay with the Train when he was much younger. Even though the conductor said that he has been in the train industry for 32 years, he might have meant that he got the train when he was possibly in his 20s or something like that.

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Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#73228: Apr 22nd 2023 at 8:23:13 PM

Okay but Eggman makes it very clear that the train's AI is only due to his own intelligence, meaning he put it in. In addition, he said that he converted CARGO trains into luxury trains, so Eggman has very likely done this 32 years ago.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#73229: Apr 22nd 2023 at 11:39:20 PM

Even though Sonic isn't 32 years old for the plot to be in place when he first converted the train, we do know from IDW and Frontiers that Badniks are connected to the EGGNET, so he might've done firmware updates.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#73230: Apr 23rd 2023 at 10:32:10 AM

Another Sonic mistery solved, appearently.

Ever wondered why Tails is brown in the earlier Western cartoons of Sonic? He was brown very early in development.

I feel a form of vindication, as an annoying Tumblr user took that design as "West bad" excuse to shit on the American branch. Then again, that person is toxic and became a punching bag on Twitter when she wished death on Mr Flynn under the guise of a "joke".

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#73231: Apr 23rd 2023 at 10:51:41 AM

Just like Knuckles was pink early in development.

"May your heart be your guiding key"
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#73232: Apr 23rd 2023 at 12:38:25 PM

This topic always reminds me of that wanted poster for Tails in SA2 describing his fur color as "fox brown".
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/1607460852507.jpg

ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#73233: Apr 23rd 2023 at 12:42:18 PM

Date of Birth: None

Place of Birth: None

Well that just raises further questions!

Edited by ShirowShirow on Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:42:32 PM

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neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#73234: Apr 23rd 2023 at 1:14:37 PM

Unless None is the name of the place he was born. After all there are weird place names in real life. The Fleetway's version of Tails came from a Zone named the "Nameless Zone".

Edited by neoamon on Apr 23rd 2023 at 9:15:06 AM

"May your heart be your guiding key"
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#73235: Apr 23rd 2023 at 1:17:31 PM

No, see, it's pronounced No-nay.

Edited by WillKeaton on Apr 23rd 2023 at 2:23:19 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#73236: Apr 23rd 2023 at 1:51:41 PM

They just really didn't want to reference Sonic 2.

Also, it's fair that the Government doesn't know where this anthro-fox came from.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#73237: Apr 23rd 2023 at 4:45:49 PM

Height: Small
Complexion: Fox

I think whoever wrote this wanted poster was just really annoyed by having to write a description for a non-human.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#73238: Apr 23rd 2023 at 6:29:12 PM

As if there was any doubt, Flynn will write Frontiers DLC.

And you have people in the replies begging for a Japanese writer.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73239: Apr 23rd 2023 at 6:57:13 PM

Why would there be any doubt...

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#73240: Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:24:54 PM

Some held the hope only Kishimoto would write the "true" script, and to diminish Flynn's role as he "didn't write the story, just the script".

Every day, you find new ways for people to be petty about a guy's role.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#73241: Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:25:31 PM

I mean I think it's Japanese people asking for a Japanese writer, which isn't actually what first sprung to mind. [lol] Slightly more reasonable than a bunch of weeb japanophiles doing their usual round of whining.

Still odd TBH. It's not like there was a large contingent of people that where huge fans of the writing in the games for the last decade.

Although it does make me wonder if there was split in how Frontiers was received between the east and west.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Apr 23rd 2023 at 2:26:34 PM

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Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
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#73242: Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:35:01 PM

Not really, the people asking for a Japanese writer aren't Japanese.

I'm concerned some of these folks (one in that thread) is one of those Weeb edgelords who have a grudge against localization and English dubs. They are the same kind of person who made a whole campaign claiming Bridget being trans was a localization invention, even claiming to know Japanese, until the creator confirmed it was the intent. It was a shit show.

Edited by Tomodachi on Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:41:25 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#73243: Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:38:35 PM

The last decade of games where mainly written by Westerners, specifically Pontac and Graff, and the Japanese Sonic fanbase absolutely hates those two.

Though I skimmed through the link and it looks like the comments directed at Kishimoto are all from Westerners, including the tweets written in Japanese.

As for what Japanese fans though of Frontiers story though, from what I can see they mostly don't have much opinion on Ian Flynn and his writing because Frontier's Japanese script is so different from the English script. There's instead a lot of criticism towards Kishimoto for rewriting the script that heavily and obscuring some plot points as they feel like they have to play the English version to fully understand the story, as well as issues just with Kishimoto's dialogue writing like weird and unnatural wording or some complaints over how Sonic speaks (he never says any English phrases and he refers to Amy with a different second-person pronoun than he's ever used before).

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
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#73244: Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:46:12 PM

I heard that. The Japanese version of Frontiers is very weird compared with other entries in the language. You can't even blame Flynn's writing style, as he doesn't really write that different from everyone else.

Speaking of the Japanese fandom, how do they feel about Colors and Forces? I'm curious. And don't mind me asking: do they hate Zavok as much as the West, or are indifferent enough SOJ doesn't do anything about him?

Edited by Tomodachi on Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:48:01 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#73245: Apr 23rd 2023 at 9:31:26 PM

Colors mainly has the reputation of being a good game but with a terrible story and writing. For example, one Japanese article on it describes Sonic as having a weird personality where he keep throwing out weak jokes and that fans were unsatisfied with how uncool Sonic seemed because of it.

Forces gameplay-wise is mostly thought of as alright but too short and easy. The Avatar character and system is mostly liked except for the awkwardness that comes from your Avatar not speaking or having a name. When it comes to the plot and some other details it was heavily criticized, to the point when I would check 5ch threads for Sonic it seemed like one of those things people hated but couldn't stop talking about why and what went wrong (kind of like FF13 for FF fans for a long time, or some other such examples). The stuff getting criticized is mostly stuff you've probably heard before, like Eggman taking over the world not being properly shown or utilized, Classic Sonic being weirdly shoved in and called an alternate universe Sonic instead from the past, them having these past villains all show up only for them to be fake clones that you don't get to fight all of, a lot of old character showing up but not being properly utilized nor can you play as any of them, Silver not being explained why he's here, the world being shown as nothing but animal people with no humans when no game has done that before. Infinite especially gets a lot complaints because Japanese fans mostly thought he looked really cool, but his dialogue and personally are too one-note and lame, his defeat is quick and lame, and his backstory is underexplained and lame.

There's a Japanese article on fan reactions to Forces I'm looking over and funny enough, it has multiple instances of negatively comparing Forces to 06, that is, saying how 06 did stuff with its plot and characters so much better than Forces.

As for Zabok, maybe they don't hate him as much? From what I've seen Japanese fans don't particularly like or hate him, they're just kind of indifferent to him. I've seen some comments from people who like him (to be fair his Japanese voice sounds pretty cool), but I've also seen comments from people confused and put off by how often he kept suddenly showing up as a minor villain in various games.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#73246: Apr 23rd 2023 at 10:11:53 PM

It sounds like a more polite reception but ultimately the same as the west. There is this problematic user on Twitter who claims Forces is loved in Russia.

However, i'm inclined to not believe him.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73247: Apr 24th 2023 at 8:47:03 AM

[up][up] Power of Joji Nakata baby.

I feel like the divisiveness between the Eastern and Western hemispheres of how Sonic is written mostly comes down to Value Dissonance obviously, but also how the franchise was interpreted in its early years.

Plus ya know, different writers coming in at various points with their own specific interpretations.

Like people love to cite Shiro Maekawa a lot, but completely forget that he reinterpreted the series too to his own liking, much to the chagrin of Western Sonic fans who came up on the 2D Classic games. And let's not beat around the bush here, Shadow is his pet project and it's not a coincidence that the games Shadow is at his most prominent, tend to have Maekawa on the staff.

So it's kind of funny to see fans lobby criticisms towards writers like Flynn or Stanley, but praise Maekawa for doing the same thing.

Biases, can't help them.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#73248: Apr 24th 2023 at 8:56:03 AM

The difference is that Shiro did a good job at making things feel faithful to what came before while he was tweaking things to his own tastes.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#73249: Apr 24th 2023 at 9:56:45 AM

[up] I don't think his games were any more or less faithful to the previous games than the later games were to his, tbh.

He reimagined a lot of the characters, and the general tone of the series - same as subsequent writers. His are more popular, but Yakuzu's right that he just did the same thing later writers did.

Arguably, the big thing something the later games didn't do was work to appeal to what the target audience liked at the time. Shadow just as an example, for all he gets kind of mocked today, was a masterstroke in incorporating popular trends at the time (which feels weird to say, man - I don't often praise that sort of thing) - being conceived when edgy shounen in its heyday in Japan, and released just as it was hitting its stride in America.

What was popular for Japanese and Western audiences when the Boost games came out was no longer what was popular during the Adventure games, but even so the games didn't really bother exploring that either. They mostly went with a more generic cartoony style, which is fine in doses (Colors, in particular, nails the Saturday Morning Cartoon vibe it was going for imo) but I can understand the argument that it wasn't sustainable for as long as they did it.

There's a case to be made that Frontiers is influenced pretty heavily by modern media, though. This comes with some drawbacks (like it being completely removed from the universe and setting that usually surrounds Sonic, and the tone being somewhat jarring) but overall was similarly quite popular.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2023 at 9:57:59 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#73250: Apr 24th 2023 at 10:07:30 AM

Given Ian Flynn's clear love of continuity and callbacks, I hope future games let us see some old, classic areas again. Not, like, "Let's go back to Chemical Plant Zone and do a level there!" We've had quite enough of that.

I mean. Like. Okay, shoot. Eggman's old chemical plant on Westside Island that used to churn out all those toxins way back when. What ever became of that? How is Westside doing these days?

And wouldn't it be neat to pop by Station Square some time to see how the post-Chaos reconstruction is coming along? Or to visit literally any part of Angel Island other than the Master Emerald Podium?

Flynn clearly has a love for the continuity and history of the series, and I'd like to see that manifest in spending at least some time going back and revisiting the places where this history takes place. Rather than just recycling Generations-style levels and occasionally whole-ass reusing Generations levels.

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