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PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#72526: Mar 29th 2023 at 6:01:49 PM

What really brings it down is Sonic's story because he's Trapped by Mountain Lions nearly the whole time with the stomach-churning Elise plot while Shadow and Silver do the actual plot-relevant stuff with stopping Mephiles and sealing Iblis.

I said it before, but it really feels like they had this Time Travel plot mostly done but had no idea how Sonic or Eggman were supposed to fit in, so they just shrugged and had a princess kidnapping B plot while Shadow and Silver do everything.

Sure, Elise had Iblis sealed inside her, but that is so non-relevant until Last Story that Elise could have been replaced by literally any other MacGuffin and all that would change is Sonic would have no reason to be there.

Edited by PhiSat on Mar 29th 2023 at 7:04:36 AM

Oissu!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#72527: Mar 29th 2023 at 6:07:38 PM

All they had to do was nix the different episode nonsense...

Have Shadow be friends with Elise.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#72529: Mar 29th 2023 at 6:15:56 PM

I decided to put together a list of the writers of almost every Sonic game with dialogue. I'm gonna list the directors too just because they have at least some influence on what gets put in the game and it's kind of interesting.

  • Adventure - Written by Akinori Nishiyama. Directed by Takashi Iizuka.
  • Adventure 2 - Written by Shiro Maekawa. Directed by Takashi Iizuka.
  • Advance trilogy - Don't have credited writers unsurprisingly (1 doesn't have dialogue, and 2 and 3 has very little), but they were all notably directed by Akinori Nishiyama.
  • Battle - This game surprisingly doesn't have a clear credited writer. It was directed by Tomoyuki Hayashi. There's Asahiko Kikuchi credited as "Story Mode Planner" but I don't know if that means he wrote the story mode or just came up with gameplay parts of it.
  • Heroes - Written by Shiro Maekawa. Directed by Takashi Iizuka.
  • Shadow - Written and directed by Takashi Iizuka.
  • Rush - The game doesn't have a credited writer, but it was directed by Akinori Nishiyama, who Maekawa once called Blaze's creator, so I'm guessing Nishiyama also wrote the script.
  • Riders - Written by Hiroshi Miyamoto, who was also one of the main level and gameplay designers for the Riders series. Directed by Kenjiro Morimoto. Both Miyamoto and Morimoto are credited as making storyboards for the game.
  • Sonic (2006) - Written by Shiro Maekawa and Kiyoko Yoshimura, the former writing the key parts of the plot and latter writing in the details. Directed by Shun Nakamura, who came up with Silver and some plot elements.
  • Rivals 1 & 2 - Written and directed by Takashi Iizuka.
  • Secret Rings - Written by Shiro Maekawa. Directed by Yojiro Ogawa. Half the script was rewritten by Ogawa after Maekawa was done.
  • Rush Adventure - Doesn't have a credited writer. Akinori Nishiyama acted as producer, and Sakae Osumi was the director from Sonic Team, so I'm guessing one of them wrote it?
  • Riders: Zero Gravity - Written by Masahiko Shiraishi (who like Kiyoko Yoshimura was a Sonic X script writer). Shiro Maekawa and Hiroshi Miyamoto are credited as "Story Plotters" so I'm guessing they helped come up with the plot outline. Directed by Kenjiro Morimoto.
  • Chronicles - Pretty much entirely made by Bioware staff, including the writing.
  • Unleashed - Written by Kiyoko Yoshimura. Directed by Yoshihisa Hashimoto.
  • Black Knight - Written by Shiro Maekawa, but he's uncredited for some reason. Directed by Tetsu Katano.
  • Free Riders - Written by Yasushi Otake. Eitaro Toyoda and Takashi Iizuka are also credited as "Scenario Supervisors". Directed by Kenjiro Morimoto.
  • Colors - Written by Ken Pontac, Warren Graff, and Yasushi Otake. Directed by Morio Kishimoto. From what I can tell from interviews, the story for the game was originally written by Otake (and that version seems to be what mostly gets used for the DS version) but Pontac and Graff were then given nearly free rein to rewrite the English script, the cutscenes were animated based on that English script, and then a final Japanese script was made based off that.
  • Generations - Written by Ken Pontac and Warren Graff. Directed by Hiroshi Miyamoto. The game apparently was written and animated in English first, the Japanese version is a localization.
  • Lost World - Written by Ken Pontac, Warren Graff, and Harumasa Nakajima. Directed by Morio Kishimoto. From what I've seen it seems a similar situation as Colors except Pontac and Graff had even more say in the early drafts and basic plot.
  • Boom - To sum it up quickly, Rise of Lyric was written by staff at Big Red Button, Shattered Crystal was written by Pontac, Graff, and a member of Sanzaru, Fire & Ice was the same but they also got a few of the Boom cartoon writers involved.
  • Forces - Written by Eitaro Toyoda, Ken Pontac, Warren Graff, and Makoto Goya. Directed by Morio Kishimoto. Apparently a similar situation as Colors. The story was first written by Toyoda, Pontac and Graff wrote the English script which the cutscenes were animated off of, then a final Japanese script was made. I'm not sure where Goya fits in, maybe he wrote the final post-localization Japanese script.
  • Team Racing - Written by Ken Pontac and Warren Graff, but they're uncredited for some reason.
  • Frontiers - The story was apparently thought up from a joint effort between director Morio Kishimoto, writer Ian Flynn, and lead game designer Jyunpei Ootsu. Flynn then wrote the English script, the cutscenes animated from that, and then Kishimoto wrote the Japanese script.

Something interesting that became obvious when I was putting this together is just how many people left Sonic Team or Sega entirely around 2008 to 2010. Almost all the people listed above that worked on Adventure through Black Knight had no involvement in anything from Colors onward, and most of those involved in Colors onward joined Sonic Team/Sega in the same time period.

Edited by KuroBaraHime on Mar 29th 2023 at 9:17:23 AM

Psi001 Since: Oct, 2010
#72530: Mar 29th 2023 at 6:17:36 PM

[up]A Big "YES!" to Headcanon being involved, hopefully SEGA didn't stifle them too much like they did Stealth in the vanilla version.

[up]I definitely think Sonic 2006 was the big exaserbation of a lot of the criticisms with Sonic of that era, like "Sonic's shitty friends" and the pretentious story telling. It was BLATANTLY obvious they were forcefully shoving their new ideas and characters into focus and building the game and universe around THEM, rather than vice versa. Even Sonic himself was starting to feel like an afterthought, ironic for an anniversary title called "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG".

Of course when fans complained about their obviously stupid and overindulgent direction SEGA just assumed it meant they didn't like ANY new characters and storyline, that it was the CONCEPT that sucked and not their own slapdash execution of it.

Edited by Psi001 on Mar 29th 2023 at 2:20:11 PM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#72531: Mar 29th 2023 at 6:52:59 PM

I hope Headcannon had a better working relationship with Sega this time around. The original Origins had some Troubled Production involving 3&K.

[up][up] Takashi Iizuka is credited as Character Supervisor in Chronicles.

Edited by Tomodachi on Mar 29th 2023 at 6:54:57 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72532: Mar 29th 2023 at 7:47:46 PM

Headcanon being on this puts me at ease a bit.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Rabbitearsblog Movie and TV Goddess from United States Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Movie and TV Goddess
#72533: Mar 29th 2023 at 7:49:21 PM

I'm surprised that Headcanon is coming back to do Origins Plus. Let's hope that SEGA treats them better this time around.

I love animation, TV, movies, YOU NAME IT!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72534: Mar 29th 2023 at 7:52:12 PM

Money talks.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#72535: Mar 29th 2023 at 9:54:30 PM

I suppose I have to make a hot take: I feel the reason the character roster was smaller after 06 fiasco wasn't because 06 was a fiasco. Sonic Team, or more specifically, the new staff in charge of Sonic Team at the time, just didn't want to experiment with all the characters.

The promotion of Sonic 4 was strictly a marketing thing from Sega of America. After all, just after 06, we had the Storybook titles and Unleashed that focused solely on Sonic. No pesky hedgehog deuteroganist in sight.

The only other games after 06 that had multiple characters...were the Rivals games, directed by shock of all shocks, Iizuka. wild mass guess Meaning having multiple characters is more of a style of his.wild mass guess

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#72536: Mar 29th 2023 at 10:12:08 PM

There was at least some outside influence on Sonic Team's output in later games. Iizuka once made a comment that Generations and Lost World didn't have vocal songs in them because an "overseas office" (presumably Sega of America) didn't like them and requested they not do them anymore, and Iizuka pushed for Forces to have them again.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#72537: Mar 29th 2023 at 10:16:56 PM

Whenever someone mentions Iizuka, my mind first goes to the former member of Suzuki-gun who retired from wrestling just after I started following the promotion he was in.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#72539: Mar 29th 2023 at 10:49:55 PM

A Game studio...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
electricmastro Since: Apr, 2015
#72540: Mar 29th 2023 at 11:31:15 PM

Who was the writer for Sonic X-treme?

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#72541: Mar 29th 2023 at 11:44:58 PM

Okay but what's their relevancy? People are treating this as a big win, what are they known for?

neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#72542: Mar 29th 2023 at 11:52:48 PM

[up]The Sonic 1 mobile port, the Sonic 2 mobile port, and Sonic Mania.

Edited by neoamon on Mar 29th 2023 at 7:53:04 PM

"May your heart be your guiding key"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72543: Mar 30th 2023 at 2:45:08 AM

Headcanon was a small development studio on Sonic Retro that started off doing rom hacks of 2D Sonic games and learning how to reverse engineer those games

As mentioned, they are responsible for the mobile ports of the 2D titles in the early 2010's and all of the Qo L improvements made to them as well and building an entirely new engine for those games that is currently being used for Origins.

Their first official work for Sega was the 2011 remaster of Sonic CD. They would go on to develop Sonic Mania 7 years later along with Christain Whitehead as well as Sonic Origins.

Given Sega's spotty track record with 2D Sonic, Headcanon being involved is a sign that the quality of Origins will be well maintained.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 30th 2023 at 5:46:53 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tony-Sharx Megalodons are the best kind of furry. from ACME Nation Since: Mar, 2020
Megalodons are the best kind of furry.
#72544: Mar 30th 2023 at 6:30:51 AM

[up][up][up][up] I don't think there's any writing credentials for X-treme seeing as it was cancelled entirely during development.

Certified, self-appointed Sonic Visionary
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#72545: Mar 30th 2023 at 6:39:19 AM

I forget which youtube channel covered this, but was that the cancelled game that wound up getting some ideas repurposed into Sonic 06?

Did SEGA and Dimps have a falling out or something?

neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#72546: Mar 30th 2023 at 6:48:09 AM

I would like it if we actually got a boss fight with Mecha Sonic MK III and Metal Knuckles.

"May your heart be your guiding key"
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#72547: Mar 30th 2023 at 6:55:59 AM

[up][up] Sonic X-treme was the cancelled Sonic game for the Sega Saturn. I don't think it had anything repurposed for 06, that might be another cancelled game I'm unfamiliar with.

No idea what happened with Sega and Dimps. Dimps is still around but it looks like their last time working with Sega was Lost World 3DS.

Edited by TommyFresh on Mar 30th 2023 at 6:56:10 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#72548: Mar 30th 2023 at 7:46:29 AM

Here's a fun mythology gag!

Apparently Amy's Easter outfit uses the green dress she had in an episode of Sonic X, namely the one where Sonic's friends get chased around because they became celebrities. (The boots are a different color, though.)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 30th 2023 at 10:46:56 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#72549: Mar 30th 2023 at 10:07:36 AM

Someone asked me if the storytelling in Forces was what I was looking for from a sonic game (given that it has the extended cast of characters talking in Sonic's ear as you play through the levels)

And that iteration fell flat for me for a few reasons, for one they're not conversations, Sonic doesn't have anything to say in response, and rarely does anyone else chime in to react what was said previously, and secondly you're not really given agency in that game to do anything for the talking heads to react to.

It mostly feels like a dozen characters cheering in your ear.

Honnestly I really like the story telling in Frontiers and think it might be the best in the series? It's really simple: Amy, Knuckles and Tails take turns to be who you hand your collectables into, and each time it prompts a bit of introspection from them and Sonic.

My only issue with it is that it doesn't allow much of any interaction between non sonic characters, which is a shame because some characters in Sonic's cast pair really really well.

I actually got excited playing through island 3 trying to figure out who would be trapped in a bubble in islands 4 and 5, I convinced myself that Shadow and Rouge would be stuffed into the same bubble.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#72550: Mar 30th 2023 at 10:53:13 AM

I guess Eggy would've been the one in the bubble on island 5 had he not gotten out early thanks to Sage, since 1 and 4 were the same island.
There were brief moments when Amy and Knuckles acknowledged Tails was trapped too but would be okay for a bit, showing a bit of confidence in him. That was appreciated. It also makes sense that those would be the few moments of trapped characters acknowledging each other, since they only know who else is trapped if Sonic brings them up, and Knuckles wasn't known to be there.

Sonic's social media platforms (Facebook and twitter, at least) just put out posts assigning tabletop game roles to various characters. I'd say a lot of the roles are spot on. I'm surprised by how well Big (bard) and Amy (a fellow paladin) fit. And of course Rouge being a rogue is just right.

I finally found a video of someone showing off some of the optimum routes for Cyberspace that don't require the magnet dash or lots of camera adjustment.

I hate to have a bit of a Fan Hater moment, but... While I was looking for the above video I came across some comments that basically claimed Sonic game devs don't know what "momentum" is, and effectively claimed momentum would be no cap on Sonic's speed and just being able to go faster and as fast as they want. That's not momentum. That's just limitless acceleration. If they want Sonic to exist in a frictionless environment where gravity only exists when you want it to, just say that.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Mar 30th 2023 at 12:56:52 PM


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