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diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#72276: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:01:18 PM

Although since Sonic has them at the beginning of 3, it is canon that he had them all in 2. Take that however you will. Or don't. I don't really care.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72277: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:04:37 PM

The only reason I don't entirely agree with that is because the way the characters speak about it, using the Emeralds and emerald powers in general sounds like something that not anyone should be able to do. Shadow expressing shock and surprise that Sonic (and Silver) can use Chaos Control, and Sonic even doubting that he can use the move too, etc.

Chaos Control is a separate ability from Super. Anyone can go Super, only a few can use Chaos Control.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72278: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:06:44 PM

That makes no fucking sense lol. "Yea, the ability that requires a single emerald is rare, but anyone can just use all seven of them to become a god"

[up][up][up] Alright that's fair.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 25th 2023 at 8:07:36 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#72279: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:09:20 PM

I always saw Super Knuckles in S3&K as probably canon, myself. Both because he can turn Super with just the regular Emerald like Sonic, unlike Tails who needs to powered-up Emeralds that turns other two Hyper just to go Super, and Knuckles has his own plotline in S3&K where he would have the opportunity to turn Super, unlike Tails who's playthrough is a slightly altered and effectively non-canon version of Sonic's. Of course, Knuckles doesn't always transform for his final boss like Sonic does, but Sonic wasn't guaranteed to transform in Sonic 2 and we know from the start of 3 that Sonic canonically turned Super in 2.

Though Knuckles is shown transformed in the ending, but only if you got all the Super Emeralds, which is kind of another can of worms. I view the Super Emeralds and the Hyper forms are being probably non-canon because it's they're not really explained and have never been brought up again. But you could argue that's a point against Super Knuckles because as I said he's only shown transformed outside a purely gameplay scenario in the ending where you have Hyper Knuckles. But that doesn't exactly change my mind since the endings as shown in the Hyper versions of the endings could be canon even when the Hyper modes themselves are not.

diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#72280: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:09:43 PM

The using all seven to "become a god" sounds MORE plausible then using one to "merely" manipulate space-time to me.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#72281: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:12:23 PM

Super Knux is definitely canon. Super Tails is questionable, but Knuckles actually has his own dedicated campaign independent of Sonic. In fact, it takes place after the events of Sonic's 3 & Knuckles campaign. You can even see the crashed wreckage of the Death Egg in some levels.

And, like Sonic, Super Knux decides the fate of the plot. He doesn't get a bonus level dedicated to it, but if Knuckles doesn't go Super, then he doesn't recover the Master Emerald from Mecha Sonic.

Either Super Knuckles is canon, or Sonic Adventure is not.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 25th 2023 at 5:13:20 AM

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Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#72282: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:12:54 PM

super amy should just get a bigger hammer. make it like the tinkatot line in the newest pokemon except the starting hammer is bigger

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72283: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:14:33 PM

[up][up]But unlike in The Doomsday Zone, you can't actually go Super in Knuckles' final boss at all unless you hack.

Knuckles is only Super after you beat the boss.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 25th 2023 at 8:14:57 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#72284: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:19:38 PM

You shouldn't be able to see the Death Egg in any of Knuckles' levels...

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neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#72285: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:31:47 PM

You can see where it has been but we can't see the Death Egg itself.

"May your heart be your guiding key"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#72286: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:37:51 PM

You're right, I had that backwards. The crashed Death Egg is visible in Sonic's campaign because it crash-landed on Angel Island. Eggman spends the interim of 3 & K repairing and prepping it for relaunch. In Knuckles's campaign, the Death Egg is already gone.

There are also points in Sonic's campaign where you can see the ocean in the background, which are replaced by open sky in Knux's campaign because Angel Island's back in the air where it belongs.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#72287: Mar 25th 2023 at 5:46:18 PM

Then it flies into space when you beat the game.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#72288: Mar 25th 2023 at 6:01:18 PM

the Death Egg, or Angel Island? Because going off Scrapnik Island, the former straight up pulled a Poochie

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#72289: Mar 25th 2023 at 6:05:26 PM

Angel Island.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#72290: Mar 25th 2023 at 6:58:08 PM

I found art of Super Classic Amy. I love the magical girl look!

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#72291: Mar 25th 2023 at 8:33:50 PM

I'm gonna split it down the middle here.

Amy will get a super form in origins but if there are boss fights in Frontiers, the DLC characters will all get the shields from heroes. Classic and Modern have different rules.

diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#72292: Mar 25th 2023 at 8:43:45 PM

I dunno. The boss fights in Frontiers are very over the top. If the DLC would have more like that, then I don't think just a shield thingy quite cuts it.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#72293: Mar 25th 2023 at 10:17:11 PM

That makes no fucking sense lol. "Yea, the ability that requires a single emerald is rare, but anyone can just use all seven of them to become a god"

Makes sense to me.

It's implicit that the power Sonic gets as Super Sonic comes from the Emeralds. If you collect all seven of them, you gain access to great power. It's like winning a poker hand after collecting five face cards - the overwhelming energy is there no matter what you do, and all that matters is your ability to handle it. But that comes with the understanding that without all the Emeralds, you don't get that power - Sonic, before that point, couldn't tap into bupkiss on his own.

So a guy waltzing up able to unlock great power just by using one of them was unheard of at the time, and does make sense as something that would be rare in comparison. Even Knuckles, who knows a bunch of undefined emerald manipulating spells/chants/mantras or whatever those "seven servers" incantations were, never showed that kind of ability.

I wouldn't necessarily say that everyone could gain a super form (for instance, Eggman explicitly can't, at least in games canon), but stuff like - say - how the official reason since forever that Tails doesn't have a super form is simply because he's too young to handle the power yet would imply that on the other hand the ability to become super isn't something overly exclusive.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 25th 2023 at 10:23:00 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#72294: Mar 25th 2023 at 10:21:42 PM

I mean...Chaos Control can be done with all the Chaos Emeralds, but Shadow's ability to do it with just one is meant to be his specialty.

It's a bit less special that both Sonic and Silver can do it and a lame parallel to Dragon Ball if it's only because they're Hedgehogs.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72295: Mar 25th 2023 at 11:02:35 PM

[up][up] My attitude is like; alright, if a "normal" person cannot control or handle the powers of a single emerald, then how the hell could anyone just casually use all seven then?

If a person being able to use just one emerald is a big deal, then using all seven should be an even bigger deal than that right?

I think the "Male Hedgehog only" mandate is stupid too, but that doesn't mean that suddenly every recurring character should just able to use that type of power with no caveats whatsoever. It should be a big deal for someone to be able to harness the power of the Chaos Emeralds.

[up] Its only a fanon theory, but the idea that Sonic is the "true" Ultimate Lifeform and Shadow is a copy of him kind of bridges that gap. Cuz now you have a canon explanation on why they can use the Emeralds that just tied it being Dragon Ball. But that doesn't explain Silver and like I said, its only fanon.

Sega have done a really bad job at contextualizing these things....

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 25th 2023 at 2:04:43 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
electricmastro Since: Apr, 2015
#72296: Mar 25th 2023 at 11:03:28 PM

TIL that Sonic Unleashed got a version on Java phones.

Edited by electricmastro on Mar 25th 2023 at 2:03:55 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72297: Mar 25th 2023 at 11:05:09 PM

[up][up]Think of it more as making a wish from one Dragon Ball.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72298: Mar 25th 2023 at 11:10:55 PM

But that's not how it works. Shadow doesn't wish to use Chaos Control, he just does it.

Sure, wishing on the Chaos Emeralds is a thing that exists, but Sonic is explicitly shown as absorbing them when he goes Super and they leave him when he powers down. Sonic doesn't "wish" to go Super, he uses the power to do that.

And we know this because the Master Emerald can and has been used as a substitute for powering Super forms.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 25th 2023 at 2:11:04 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#72299: Mar 25th 2023 at 11:13:52 PM

What if Chaos Control is in fact something anybody can do, because it's one of several hidden powers of the Chaos Emeralds themselves?

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72300: Mar 25th 2023 at 11:27:43 PM

[up][up]Okay, focusing on the "wish" part of my comparison is dumb, obviously I wasn't talking about the Chaos Emeralds in the context of wishes. I was just talking about gaining a power from one thing that normally only does anything when in the full set.

Like if someone in Dragon Ball had the explicit power to make a wish using just one Dragon Ball. I just referenced wishes because that's the only thing the Dragon Balls do.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Mar 25th 2023 at 11:29:48 AM


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