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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#71701: Mar 13th 2023 at 12:59:07 PM

They could've still been Egg themed...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#71702: Mar 13th 2023 at 1:01:37 PM

Eh, not too many of his minions are actually egg themed. Animal themed, sure.

Dictionaryman616 Since: Mar, 2020 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#71703: Mar 13th 2023 at 1:02:17 PM

What? Why would they need to be egg-shaped? I understand how it's Dr. Eggman, but it seems overkill.

Edited by Dictionaryman616 on Mar 13th 2023 at 4:02:56 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#71704: Mar 13th 2023 at 1:04:48 PM

The "E" in E-series doesn't really stand for anything.

As shaped based robots, I can see why you thought I meant Egg shaped.

It's not overkill, the Egg theming in his designs has been rather lacking lately.

Edited by randomness4 on Mar 13th 2023 at 4:05:44 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71705: Mar 13th 2023 at 2:39:11 PM

Orbot and Cubot don't have bad designs, but they're also not very remarkable either.

Its not about being deep, its about being visually striking. Metal Sonic is a striking design that stands out.

Sage isn't a remarkable design either, she's just a normal anime girl. But she has better writing to make for it.

Orbot and Cubot aren't visually interesting nor do they add substantial to Eggman's character in the way Sage does.

I'm not saying I want them gone, but if they're just gonna be there to moan and groan and offer nothing of note, then I fail to see what is it they add.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#71706: Mar 13th 2023 at 2:56:54 PM

I just like the fact they can add levity to some scenes with Eggman and it works arguably work better long if comedy is more coming from them than him simply being the butt of the joke too often. The Sonic Colors Ultimate shorts demonstrated there's a fun dynamic of them as the humorous ones playing off of Metal and if that's continued in the next couple of games alongside whatever relationship they have with Sage? I think there's potential there if done right. If there's going to be a semi-serious character exploration with the likes of Eggman and Sage, getting a few small laughs with Orbot and Cubot can serve a nice contrast at times.

Edited by BorneAgain on Mar 13th 2023 at 5:59:29 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#71707: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:04:59 PM

Also, I think it's worthwhile to have Eggman have more characters to play off of, because it benefits his mental state and complexity as a character.

On a semi-sidenote: Let's say Eggman wins. He beats Sonic and friends, and absolutely no one is left standing in his way. No resistance or anything. What does that look like to you all? Is everyone except him roboticized or dead? Are there still life forms providing slave labor or living under his ideal society? Does GUN or any human organization exist (assuming there were any on whatever you think the planet is in the first place)?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71708: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:11:03 PM

Like I said, that primarily works in the more comedic oriented games as opposed to the action and/or drama oriented ones. They need to offer something more than just levity otherwise they become superfluous at best and actively annoying at worst.

Most fan favorite Sonic characters either have a cool design or do cool things or they have some type of character arc that gets people engaged with them.

Orbot and Cubot have neither of that, unless you absolutely think Eggman needs comedy lackeys for whatever reason.

Also, I think it's worthwhile to have Eggman have more characters to play off of, because it benefits his mental state and complexity as a character.

Like I said, it depends on what exactly is being offered in the dynamic. I personally don't think Eggman needs comedic foils in the context of the games. Especially if the comedy is at his expense.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 13th 2023 at 6:13:52 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#71709: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:23:12 PM

This might just come down to me not feeling that every single Sonic character needs to be dramatically engaging or inherently cool to be worth keeping around for. As much as grief as the 2010s era got for its hit and miss comedy, I'm still inclined to support a pairing like Orbot and Cubot because they've demonstrated the capacity for good humor in the right hands. I'm fine with a more consistently serious Eggman and character oriented exploration of him and Sage, but I'm a lot more fine with it if there's an element like them to lighten the mood once in a while, whether they're superfluous in the grand dramaturgical narrative of Sonic or not.

Edited by BorneAgain on Mar 13th 2023 at 6:27:06 AM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#71710: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:27:25 PM

Honestly they're all interchangeable to me except for Metal Sonic, so I never cared about which of Eggman's lackey's were what.

BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#71711: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:35:44 PM

Complete tangent, but Sonic and the Fallen Star has been pretty solid. The special stages especially feel a bit more fair than 16 Bit Triple Trouble too; latter were okay but veered into the kind of dubious rubber band AI you see in a lot of racing games.

Edited by BorneAgain on Mar 13th 2023 at 6:36:54 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71712: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:43:51 PM

Game!Eggman isn't all that comical even if he has his moments and Orbot and Cubot don't really show up unless it's with Eggman.

Game Eggman has had consistently comedic elements to his personality since Unleashed - which was, not coincidentally, the game that introduced Orbot. It's far from a new thing. Heck, even earlier. His entire role in Heroes was humor based, and iirc they started exploring comedy with him during the spinoffs of that era.

At this point it's largely too late to really consider Eggman a character with only serious traits. Entirely serious depictions of Eggman are rare, and pretty much limited to stuff like the comics.

Frontiers Eggman is serious, but then Frontiers in general is serious. It's widley regarded as one of the most humorless games in the entire franchise. Before that the last time I remember Eggman being an entirely serious character was maybe Adventure 2, which was twenty years ago.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 13th 2023 at 3:45:44 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#71713: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:45:11 PM

And even then, his interactions with Sage have some comedy to them.

Like both of them having a laugh over tormenting Sonic.

But yeah, overall a serious depiction of the doc.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 13th 2023 at 6:45:46 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71714: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:45:34 PM

To each their own. Sonic characters are at their best when they bring out new and different sides to the established cast and grow in interesting ways.

Orbot and Cubot don't really offer much and they're honestly not that funny, so I just never cared much about them.

[up][up] When I say Game Eggman isn't comedic, I mean the humor that involves him doesn't revolve around how much of a bumbling doof he is like in Boom or most the 2010 games.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 13th 2023 at 6:47:43 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71715: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:46:45 PM

Game Eggman has had consistently comedic elements to his personality since Unleashed - which was, not coincidentally, the game that introduced Orbot. It's far from a new thing. Heck, even earlier. His entire role in Heroes was humor based, and iirc they started exploring comedy with him during the spinoffs of that era.

Game Eggman has always been comedic, since the very first game.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#71716: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:47:49 PM

The American media did portray Robotnik as a relatively serious villain in contrast to Sonic.

Except AOSTH.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71717: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:50:26 PM

I think SATAM and subsequently the Archie comics are a big contributor to the perception of Eggman as a serious antagonist, yeah. That's a severely Darker and Edgier corner of the franchise with an Eggman who is basically pure evil and a post-apoc world that is grimmer and more serious in general, but the way that continuity handles characterization became clearly incongruous with the games ages ago.

When I say Game Eggman isn't comedic, I mean the humor that involves him doesn't revolve around how much of a bumbling doof he is like in Boom or most the 2010 games.

Oh. That isn't immediately obvious from what you've been saying. Eggman doesn't need to be a bumbling doof to be a largely funny character, nor do having foils like Orbot and Cubot inherently require him to be a bumbling doof anyway.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 13th 2023 at 3:54:12 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71718: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:52:50 PM

You look at Eggman's goofy ass run and tell me he's not meant to be bumbling.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71719: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:53:18 PM

He does always get away to be fair, so not much bumbling there.

That goofy run can even let him outrun Sonic.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 13th 2023 at 3:53:41 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71720: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:56:19 PM

Oh. That isn't immediately obvious from what you've been saying. Eggman doesn't need to be a bumbling doof to be a largely funny character, nor do having foils like Orbot and Cubot inherently require him to be a bumbling doof anyway.

That is literally all they've been used for though. Any time Orbot and Cubot are around Eggman, they always highlight how much he sucks.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#71721: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:58:10 PM

Funnily enough I think Boom actually curtailed a lot of that; half the humor with Eggman and the duo is him insulting them or just general jokes about how badly they're treated as his lackeys. Whether nor not that dynamic works best within a sitcom setting is up for debate, but I certain wouldn't object if that was the general direction the games took with them.

Edited by BorneAgain on Mar 13th 2023 at 7:00:18 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71722: Mar 13th 2023 at 3:59:51 PM

Outside of Orbot's very first appearance in Unleashed (back before he was named Orbot), I can't think of a single scene in the games in which either Orbot or Cubot are used to call attention to any bumbling or sucking from Eggman specifically.

If anything, they usually appear in order to be The Watson while he describes his brilliant plans, which is effectively the opposite effect.

Beyond that, Eggman usually presents as the competent foil to their wilder, more inconsistent wise guy act. Their primary purpose to to allow Eggman to have fun, comedic banter. Eggman's competence in itself rarely comes into play in their appearances. Their competence is in question, but at the same time I don't think they've ever been responsible for any of his defeats so at least in the games it's mostly just a comedy act.

The character largely used to showcase how much of a dummy Eggman is is Sonic, and it's always been that way even before Eggman started being more comedic.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 13th 2023 at 4:04:58 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71723: Mar 13th 2023 at 4:05:28 PM

But then why would Eggman put up with two minions who do nothing but undermine his authority besides the Doylist reasoning of simply being comic relief?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71724: Mar 13th 2023 at 4:06:42 PM

If we had to invent a reason, we can at least rest assured him being a bumbler isn't it, since he's - again - not actually presented as a bumbler in the story even when Orbot and Cubot are present.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 13th 2023 at 4:11:23 AM

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#71725: Mar 13th 2023 at 4:10:25 PM

I mean, they do have a job. They're utility robots. The first thing we ever see them do is capture the wisps for him in colors. They've also managed the empire when Eggman is otherwise occupied, we saw that in TSR.


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