Can vouch for Triple Trouble. Good shit, indeed.
I'm not even trying to make an arguement against the Japanese side of things. I love the shonen bullshit. But the Western side of things are as much a part of the franchise as anything else at this point.
Edited by Zeromaeus on Mar 9th 2023 at 6:11:07 AM
This is one of the main reasons 06 still gets routinely mocked to this day. Like yea, its a shit game with a nonsensical story.
But that game started a concerted effort by Sega to essentially remove and downplay as much of that Japanese influence as possible starting with Colors.
It wasn't even just Sega, Capcom were doing it too with games like DmC: Devil May Cry.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 9th 2023 at 6:45:28 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I think the real problem is that this thread really only bothered with one youtuber's perspective for a good while, which can lead to other feeling a tad overlooked if the content takes a tone they find disagreeable or overtly opinionated. It'd the different between the Pokemon thread being able to post False Swipe Gaming videos every week without issue and what's happened in this thread here.
Other youtuber's like J's Reviews can and have covered Sonic content as well, but if no one knows them no one thinks to post their content to keep discussions from stagnating.
Honestly, I'd argue Japanese games need to wear their culture and inspirations on their sleeves.
It helps them stand out from the competition.
Remember when Mario Odyssey had a Medieval Japanese Bowser castle?
It's sad that the American fans put the Japanese inspired zone in Mania and not the actual Japanese devs.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"My whole point is always been that Sonic has so become so malleable and works in so many contexts that games/media can work in either a Western or Japanese influenced interpretation. And most of that's rooted in the fact that he is such a hybrid character of two regions, a quality that's been a real strength of the franchise long term.
That's probably the core disagreement I have with Pariah or someone on the other side that would claim Sonic is fundamentally American; it leans too much in a kind of provincialism that diminishes what makes the series special.
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I mean I do watch J too. It's just that Sonic isn't the only series he covers most of the time and Pariah is relatively new compared to others.
That's not the point being made though. Sonic being "fundamentally Japanese" isn't an opinion of preferences like how fans say they like "Shonen Sonic".
Ita a literal statement of fact. Most of Sonic's core concepts are rooted in Japan...because he was created by Japanese creators.
The Western created Sonic products for the most part either ignore or downplay that and just do their own thing. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't change that the roots of Sonic are firmly planted in Japanese soil.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
On that point, I think that might actually influence how American creators treated Super Sonic.
The first three cartoons didn't use him, and Fleetway made him into a super powered evil side.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Yea because Dragon Ball hadn't blown up in the United States yet lol.
The real sticking point is Eggman...who was turned into a completely different character altogether in the American made products.
To this very day, you have people assuming Eggman and Robotnik are different characters and even I thought so too at one point. I knew the Robotnik name first and was confused when this "Eggman guy" showed up and assumed Gerald was the "original Robotnik" from the Classics and Eggman was his grandson.
That's the type of confusion the localizations made lol.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Same here. I remember playing the original Sonic games on a Genesis emulator on my computer as a kid roughly around when I was 5-7 and when I got Sonic Heroes I was super confused on who the hell Eggman was.
I actually have one of the weirdest introductions to Sonic ever.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Going back to Pariah's video. I had no idea Mole was a borrowed word for Echidna in Japan.
That...certainly explains why digging is one of Knuckles' primary traits. And why the OVA refers him as a mole.
And the whole Japanese Asian Bear. I thought his chest crest was a reebok symbol.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Mar 9th 2023 at 7:31:47 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I'm pretty sure Pariah was objectively wrong there, lemme go find a source...
Found it, and...
... Okay, so I appear to be right, but at the same time so does Pariah. So in that sense I guess I was wrong.
I remembered his chest thing representing the moon and all, so I was immediately doubtful in that regard, but I guess I'll eat my words.
I've always seen it as badniks being a specific set of Eggman's robots, namely, the predominantly animal-based ones powered by small animals.
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You misspelled "subjectively"
But in all seriousness, I never really got the whole "Robotnik is so much cooler than Eggman". They're both silly names, Robotnik literally being the word 'robot' with 'nick' at the end. It's something straight out of a campy superhero comic book! "I got this idea for a robot-themed villain! What should we name him?" "How about Dr. Robot? Er, Robot...nik?" "GENIUS!!!"
Sure, Robotnik may be a more fitting name with that in mind. But then, given that the character has always been a rotund man who is a super-genius (an 'egghead', if you will), Eggman is just as befitting. And honestly, it feels more authentic as a given name than Robotnik; there are loads of people with food-based surnames. Kevin Bacon, anyone? And I'm honest to God friends with two brothers named 'Cheeseman'. And Eggman allows for more 'distinct' names for the doctor's creations: the Death Egg, the Egg Robo, Egg Pawns, so on and so forth. But if Robotnik is the one, true name... Is it gonna be 'Death Robotnik'? 'Robo Robotnik'? 'Robotnik Pawns'? Yeah, I'm sticking with the eggs.
And keep in mind, I'm arguing this as someone who was introduced to the character as "Dr. Robotnik". That's the name I knew him as first and was confused by the switch to Eggman. But I just rolled with it because, frankly, I could see the logic. And it's not like Eggman was the only one to have his name changed. Let's not forget that Bowser and Princess Peach used to be "King Koopa" and "Princess Toadstool" for the longest time. And I'm sure there are other examples I'm forgetting.
Edited by KaoticKanine on Mar 9th 2023 at 8:33:00 AM
I guess at the end of the day as someone that tends to view Sonic as a very organic franchise that's changed and evolved so much and exists within so many popular culture spheres so naturally, the notion of it being fundamentally Japanese is a notion I'm more inclined to raise an eyebrow at than anything else. At the moment its just not something I view as inherently true (and truth be told, I don't think would be fundamentally critical to the series even if I did).
I mean, there used to be more youtuber reviews getting posted, but certain users had some choice words for them, which were echoed in this very conversation.
I don't give a flying fuck about the American 90's tie-ins. Sonic was popular over here back then by virtue of the first game (which used the Japanese artwork), and then due to Adventure and the Dreamcast. I first learned about the other stuff in 2005, when I started going online, and TTBT my impression was people being prone to disregard game stuff for convulted crap (as that was before all the goodwill was gone from Penders).
So, yeah, the thing that made the franchise sorta explode in the US was... weird. It doesn't click in other places where Sonic is also seen as a video game icon anyway.

Triple Trouble 16bit is good shit too
Are explosions science?