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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71276: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:07:54 PM

I've always been kind of meh on the Metarex. They're a more or less your average generic mob of alien conquerors, with the caveat that they're robots so that the writers didn't have to have Sonic fighting organic beings - at least imo. When applied to the games, I dunno if they can really do anything Black Doom can't already.

[up][up][up] I really like Infinite as an enemy for Shadow. I like that at the end of the day, he's an insecure fool who really, really wants to be Shadow.

Like, if Shadow ever got enough of a game presence to the point of having his own rogues gallery, Infinite would work way better that hypothetical set of villains than on Sonic's.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 19th 2023 at 9:09:12 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71277: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:12:25 PM

They could get a redesign of mixing the plant and robot aspects more, it could be fun.

[up] Shame Infinite does not actually fight Shadow in the main campaign.

Man was that all wasted opportunity.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71278: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:31:19 PM

I think it's one of those "we thought up interesting stuff for these characters after the plot was already over. Oops." situations.

I'd be down for Sonic games continuing to do a thing where Sonic has his heroic adventure main plot, and then Shadow gets his DLC or Bonus Story where he fights a slightly darker conspiracy happening in the background of the first story. Kind of like how the Kirby games always have the Meta Knightmare or King Dedede story modes in modern games.

That said, if any character should consistently get DLC stories in future games, it probably ought to be Tails first. But Shadow's a decent second place.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#71279: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:32:54 PM

They're honestly somewhat similar to the Black Arms too, with Cosmo even having similarities to Shadow in his own game. Shadow, like Cosmo, is influenced by their father(played differently, but Black Doom could literally control Shadow, while Cosmo was used as a spy), the Black Arms are way more powerful than anything before(as they gave regular Shadow trouble) where the Metarex even stomped on Super Sonic easily, a good chunk of the core cast was returned yet again to heavily help against said invader(with Big explicitly missing in both, yet most of the rest are there. Omega was never in Sonic X, so). I always felt like the Metarex is a somewhat more friendly version they did of the Black Arms, if only because it avoided the high intense violence, though there's no denying it's not that turned down. It just has more lasers at best when it comes to weapons.

That said, the Metarex's goal was terraforming planets, whereas the Black Arms only were after Earth. So they do have a difference, being a universal threat(though arguably Black Oak's final form is nowhere near as strong as Black Doom's, but who can say. Fake Emeralds are still only so powerful even then, and the final form used some power from the regular Emeralds if I recall correctly. Black Doom did so for Devil Doom's transformation, at least). They have obvious similarities, but imo, have extremely different goals. Coupled with having more clear commanders, I do think they can make for a unique game. Even if it's just a one-shot story. I mean, it was able to give as an excuse for Cream to be a badass in Sonic X outside of one fight with her and Cheese against Emerl. And she even fought using the Fly Formation holding up Amy and Cosmo, a great callback to Sonic Heroes(something they barely referenced outside of a single episode of the Chaotix returning, and very very loosely even then).

Shadow?
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71280: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:36:04 PM

Its kind of funny to me how I feel like Episode Shadow was written after the main campaign, yet that did a much better job at characterizing Infinite by making him an enemy to Shadow.

Its like Sega can't help themselves by not giving Shadow a major presence wherever he goes.

At this point, they may as well just make him the side Deuteragonist to Sonic.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71281: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:38:30 PM

I think it's less them wanting to give Shadow specifically stronger content, and more that it's just easier to give additional context for characters when you're writing an addendum to an existing story.

The whole thing just smells a lot like hindsight.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 19th 2023 at 9:38:53 AM

Tony-Sharx Megalodons are the best kind of furry. from ACME Nation Since: Mar, 2020
Megalodons are the best kind of furry.
#71282: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:38:31 PM

[up][up][up][up] Someone suggested earlier that the Freedom Fighters become Shadow's darker ensemble in contrast to Sonic's and I didn't get a chance to express how absolutely thorough that would be. If Shadow was purposely designed as a means to be a cooler, improved Sonic, that's one way I believe would fit quite nicely.

Edited by Tony-Sharx on Feb 19th 2023 at 9:38:41 AM

Certified, self-appointed Sonic Visionary
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71283: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:39:12 PM

Don't we already have Team Dark for that?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71284: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:40:41 PM

Sega have been cagey about them soooo.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71285: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:42:18 PM

I mean, yeah, but that just makes it even less likely that they're going to replace them with other characters.

Sonic Team's being cagey about them specifically because they're not sure they even want Shadow to have a supporting cast at all. If they characters they introduced to be Shadow's supporting cast don't have their approval to fill the role, we probably won't be seeing anyone else do it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 19th 2023 at 9:44:52 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71286: Feb 19th 2023 at 9:48:40 PM

Well that's cuz Shadow's kind of in an awkward position as a character at the moment.

But I think Sega are adamant at keeping Sonic as the central figure of the series with his own supporting cast, which Shadow distinctly isn't part of but kind of is since he's a money maker or something, I dunno.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tony-Sharx Megalodons are the best kind of furry. from ACME Nation Since: Mar, 2020
Megalodons are the best kind of furry.
#71287: Feb 19th 2023 at 10:07:04 PM

Plus if Prime is anything to go by, Rouge has been elevated to core team status. Her only drawback is that she obviously has her own ulterior motives that puts her alignment in question. Until we get seasons two and three, and that the creators stick to the notion that Prime is somehow canonically connected I'd say it's fair to speculate on Team Dark's place in the franchise.

Certified, self-appointed Sonic Visionary
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71288: Feb 19th 2023 at 10:10:38 PM

To be fair, the quote about Prime was in the context of whether it draws from the canon of the games. It's a canon show in that it uses the games' canon instead of inventing a completely new one, and the person saying it was specifically speaking to answer that question.

The internet just went wild with the interpretation of "the events of Prime canonically happened in the games," which wasn't the apparent intention, and hasn't been corroborated by anyone who actually would be able to say that about the games themselves.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 19th 2023 at 10:14:48 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71289: Feb 19th 2023 at 10:16:44 PM

Yea, I don't expect Rouge to stay part of the core cast past Prime. The producers just needed an additional female character and felt Rouge was the most appropriate.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#71290: Feb 19th 2023 at 10:19:28 PM

...Nothing about Prime suggested it's connected to game canon at all, and that's not a bad thing.

I don't see why Rouge couldn't stay a core cast member. She brings quite a bit to the table and has her own unique dynamics with Knuckles, Amy, and to a lesser extent Sonic and Tails, and SEGA has been clearly willing to let writers of games, comics, and shows develop her further.

I had no problems with Infinite. His Omega impersonation in Virtual Reality was a standout moment of the game, actually.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Feb 19th 2023 at 12:21:32 PM

Tony-Sharx Megalodons are the best kind of furry. from ACME Nation Since: Mar, 2020
Megalodons are the best kind of furry.
#71291: Feb 19th 2023 at 10:33:17 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Certified, self-appointed Sonic Visionary
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#71292: Feb 19th 2023 at 10:50:20 PM

Christ. What do you want me to say? I'm not trying to argue. Could you not condescend to me for a bit?

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Feb 19th 2023 at 12:51:34 PM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71293: Feb 19th 2023 at 11:20:44 PM

[up][up][up] My thing is, outside of Knuckles, Rouge doesn't have much of a dynamic with the others. You can count on one hand how much she interacts with Sonic, Tails, or Amy.

Because most of her dynamic has been with Knuckles and/or Shadow.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#71294: Feb 19th 2023 at 11:27:23 PM

Sometimes she does, like in Sonic Battle, but yeah, she often is mainly there for Omega and Shadow as part of their trio. Eggman here and there too.

That said, I do think she can work fine as part of the core cast because she has reasonably interacted with the others. Not that others don't, but it's not hard to put her in. Sonic X shows her do a lot more beyond just being part of Shadow or Eggman's team. She's still generally an antagonist there either way, but she has more than enough unique interactions beyond Knuckles. They could base it more around stuff like that if possible.

Shadow?
Tony-Sharx Megalodons are the best kind of furry. from ACME Nation Since: Mar, 2020
Megalodons are the best kind of furry.
#71295: Feb 19th 2023 at 11:59:17 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
Certified, self-appointed Sonic Visionary
Tony-Sharx Megalodons are the best kind of furry. from ACME Nation Since: Mar, 2020
Megalodons are the best kind of furry.
#71296: Feb 20th 2023 at 2:42:02 AM

...Nothing about Prime suggested it's connected to game canon at all, and that's not a bad thing.
The showrunners and Voice actors have made it a sticking point that Prime takes place somewhere on the timeline. This is evidenced by the worldbuilding and casting Modern Sonic's four core characters plus Big, Shadow and Rouge from the Adventure series. Yes, I'm fully aware of the context addressed by @Known Uknown. However if this wasn't the case, then why go out of their way to voice this to the fanbase? Who's to say SEGA doesn't have a hand in this show's development?

You have hired creators willing to shed light on what's going on behind the scenes and somehow this isn't enough for certain fans. Always got to have something in doubt.

Edited by Tony-Sharx on Feb 20th 2023 at 2:42:59 AM

Certified, self-appointed Sonic Visionary
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#71297: Feb 20th 2023 at 4:53:05 AM

It's funny that all three post-2000 shows do the same thing with adding an extra female character to the main four, so that the main cast becomes a Five-Man Band and doesn't just have Amy as the only girl. Sonic X had Cream, Boom created Sticks to fill the role, and Prime promoted Rouge to the role.

Edited by KuroBaraHime on Feb 20th 2023 at 10:09:52 AM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#71298: Feb 20th 2023 at 6:58:17 AM

I've rather Infinite be forgotten and ignored. Dude made a genuine bad impression by playing every corporate Japanese villain trope on his hand.

If you need the moneymaker to show up, for whatever reason, just write a new antagonist rather than making the square fit the circle

Edited by Tomodachi on Feb 20th 2023 at 7:00:55 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#71299: Feb 20th 2023 at 7:09:27 AM

I hope that Prime is the start of a Rouge Revival.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71300: Feb 20th 2023 at 7:17:16 AM

Its funny cuz in Sonic X, I felt Rouge was at her best. Was independent and was actually way more prominent than Shadow, which is unheard of nowadays.

Making her a main cast member almost feels like a downgrade

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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