I think I had some ideas on how to go around that, including an 06 rewrite.
Of course the problem is that Sega (of Japan) prolly doesn't like the American designed characters, especially in the wake of the Penders lawsuit, so they are prolly would had preferred if everyone forgot about them for ever. (The IDW cast is a different story due to SEGA in general having a tighter leash compared to Archie, but even then that only goes as far as one voiceline that was likely slipped in without the suits noticing and appearances in Speed Battle)
Not to sound impolite but that's the dead horse I was speaking of. And even then in hindsight that's just speculation, no one at Sega of Japan has outright stated a dislike or disapproval of the Freedom Fighters concept that Sat AM became popular for. They hated the idea of needing to market towards an American audience. So then once that became successful, sometime during development of Sonic 3&K they started fighting with their American counterpart on the series direction. So J in the long run managed to wrestle away the reigns from So A at the detriment of the franchise.
You know what's funny? Has anyone ever wondered how Sega of UK felt during this lovers spat?
Edited by Tony-Sharx on Feb 19th 2023 at 2:38:20 AM
Certified, self-appointed Sonic VisionaryThat's not entirely accurate; its not that they hated marketing towards the American audience, its more that was merely a means to an end to get the series (and by extension the Mega Drive) popular in Japan.
Now if you mean that Sega of Japan resented how Sega of America managed to get the Mega Drive popular overseas as opposed to its country of origin than yea.
But that didn't have to do with the production of the American products. That was all So A.
Nowadays its less they hate those concepts and more its just a lack of interest (or in Kishimoto's case, a lack of knowing how popular said concept are...)
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.As a slight defense of So J/Sonic Team, the incredible popularity of a Western canon, and elements of it enduring for so long, is a pretty rare phenomenon for Japanese originated series. Stuff like Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, etc certainly had American inventions or localizations that became canon and/or were elevated because of their western popularity, but nothing on the scale of Sonic.
Heck the Mario movie advertising using the Super Show song is considered a major surprise given how little attention Nintendo paid to any of those Western adaptations. Now imagine any of those shows having characters that not only ended up getting their own comic, but are still getting asked about to put into mainline games now, and you get an idea as to just how much of a rarity stuff like Sat AM really is by comparison.
I'd imagine from So J's perspective, its a bit like being an animation company that had an English dub of one of its series quickly made to bring some extra income, only for that to later become so popular it received own North American only 65 episode TV series and that 30 years later fans still want elements from both features in the mainline anime back home.
Edited by BorneAgain on Feb 19th 2023 at 6:01:45 AM
Executives at SoJ resented that SoA was more successful in their respective region, which has a lot more factors in it than just Sonic.
With Sonic, I know Yuji Naka at least is on record as saying that at the time he resented the meddling SoA had with Sonic because he felt his and Sonic Team's ideas were fine on their own for appealing to everyone, including America. I can't remember for sure now, but I think I remember reading one of the character designers had similar feelings about SoA making requests to change things with character designs.
Edited by KuroBaraHime on Feb 19th 2023 at 6:01:20 AM
Rarity is no excuse not to take advantage of such unlikely success. So J's refusal to use American concepts ran solely on the "not invented here" anti-pattern, and look where that's gotten them.
Edited by Negacube on Feb 19th 2023 at 6:03:10 AM
Where did it get them?
The series is no critical darling but its still alive and just got a massive W with Frontiers without bringing in any of the american exclusive elements we are discussing.
It's got a raitings dariling in Prime, an original project that has no direct comic influence and a successful movie franshie going that is taking from mostly the games barring its exclusive human element.
Edited by MrSeyker on Feb 19th 2023 at 3:40:40 AM
To be fair, while it's evidently quite hard to get any kind of a licensing deal out of Nintendo, we've known for quite a while that they don't necessarily give a crap about what liberties Western adaptations take as long as the end result doesn't make them regret it.
This is... let's just say uncommon among Japanese studios and companies.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 19th 2023 at 4:27:59 AM
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Yes, but they don't involve the comics, which is the thing where all these discussions cling to.
They are wholy western in sensitivity, but wholy original each outside of the core game elements that make them Sonic properties.
While the inclusion of elements of previous iterations of the franchise helps in growing its scope, the games already have more than enough to draw from because SOJ historically has never trully capitalized in what it already has.
They just alternate between tyring a lot of new ideas and characters that then stop focusing on in favor of only Sonic.
Edited by MrSeyker on Feb 19th 2023 at 4:29:54 AM
The Freedom Fighters were introduced during a time where Sonic had little to no extensive cast within the games, just Tails and Robotnik. Sat AM and Ao St H debuted at the same time in 1993 before S3&K dropped in '94. The games at the time didn't feature voice acting or dialogue to follow along with while only a small number of cutscenes only triggered if you managed to run through all the stages. Frankly the only accessible source to the lore of the Mega Drive/Genesis games were the instruction manuals included with the games.(Fun fact: Sonic 2/3/&K had American release dates earlier than Japan)
Knuckles debuted as a playable villain(1993). Sonic CD(1994) was practically a unicorn which wound up mixing Amy and Sally's names in the manuals and the Chaotix game that dropped in '95 was a commercial failure due to the troubled development and release of the 32X it was built for. You wouldn't have known of any other game characters unless you were an absolute diehard. Kids like me had to grow up playing the games and watching the cartoons at the same time. I was given S2, S&K and S3 as a bundle for a secondhand Genesis console, but I had no manuals to refer to. From my own experience I'd argue the cartoons had just as much impact on Sonic's brand as the Classic games.
Certified, self-appointed Sonic VisionaryKind of more complicated than that. The original pilot for AOSTH was in 1992.
Sonic CD released within the same month as both shows' core starts, so it's not like they couldn't use any of said characters introduced as long as there was communication. ...Which there had to be, as Sonic CD's US manual referred to Amy Rose as Sally Acorn, meaning they were aware of SATAM in some detail. And that didn't have an early pilot either as justification.
Either way, yeah, they didn't have a fully defined cast to work off of, so had to come up with stuff. They were pretty creative about it, same with Sonic Underground. Sonic X also had its fair share of unique characters. I don't remember if Boom actually had tons of unique ones, as I didn't really play the games. I think there were at least some?
Shadow?Boom the game had a bunch of unique NP Cs, but most of them don't make their way over to the show. The show used their own characters.
Orbot and Cubot appearing at all in boom surprised me because they weren't in Rise of Lyric in any capacity.
It's rumored that Tiara Boobowski was repurposed as(one of) the Bandicoot sisters but I've yet to see evidence of that. And there's Cliff who's famous for being downgraded from Engineer/Mechanic during development because Sega of Japan dictated that only Tails and Robotnik could be "tinker" characters in Sonic Boom's continuity.
Certified, self-appointed Sonic VisionaryWith Sonic having a pretty firmly defined supporting cast nowadays, the question then becomes of what purpose would the Freedom Fighters serve and that's a question people have trouble answering. Because their primary purpose was being Sonic's supporting cast, but that is a role they can no longer fill...at least as it was before.
Sonic simply has a far bigger supporting cast now.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Let's see. the ones I think could be workable (if the possibility is allowed) are
- Archie: Mammoth Mogul would work as a unique villain (easy to say when only one villain exists for most of the franchise
). As a Vandal Savage ersatz, he would be able to provide conflicts the blue blur needs to deal with in a different manner than when dealing with Baldy McNosehair here. Filling a role that the aforementioned Savage, Apocalypse (pre-Krakoa) or David Xanatos would. They could even find a way to tie him into the Chaod Emerald lore beyond and via his immortality
- While Enerjak himself is not viable (Penders aside, the idea of an Evil Knuckles this late in the history would not fly with Sega), the idea of the incarnation of him from Silver's Sonic Universe story (as in a villain who steals the souls of people and converts them into his minions) could. The only problem is that it might be seen as too close to the IDW Metal Virus arc despite the minions in question not being techno zombies.
- Scourge might also work, but I think Surge fits the idea of an Evil Counterpart better without being as derivative (ironic as it sounds)
- IDW: Starline and Surge are the obvious bets.
- X: The Metarex could also work, albeit with some retooling. They could even serve the environmentalist themes by being plant aliens that embraced the destructive aspects of technology to make themselves immortals at their fellow Seederians' expense.
Edited by MorningStar1337 on Feb 19th 2023 at 7:28:11 AM
Surge and Kit would be a fun idea. Sonic's never really had an Evil Counterpart in the games who really feels like and evil version of him, you know? Like an antagonist who darkly mirrors Sonic's own traits and temperaments. Even Shadow - back when he was evil - was more of a Deal with the Devil-type who just happened to have Sonic's exact power-set.
More generally, I do think that - given that it's Ian Flynn - it's likely that the next few games are going to introduce some new villain who is an animal person like Sonic and friends, but not a member of Eggman's group. It's something the comics writers have used very often to pad out the antagonistic side Sonic's world.
It probably won't be a literal character from the comics, but I wouldn't rule out an Expy.
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I admit to having a soft spot for Infinite just because of that and feel the hatred/mean spirited memes are a bit undeserving. I honestly don't believe he made for a bad villain in Forces. I just chalk it up to bad writing and keep my fingers crossed on more genuine game villains having Mobian designs.
Edited by Tony-Sharx on Feb 19th 2023 at 8:45:28 AM
Certified, self-appointed Sonic VisionaryThis could be the nostalgia talking cause I watched Sonic X a lot as a kid but I am a pretty big pusher of the Metarex.
They as concept are pretty much gift-wrapped to star in a game after going through some necessary repurposing/retooling.
They are their own faction of alien invaders (could do the thing better than Black Doom did), have a unique bit of being plant aliens who willingly mechanized themselves, have a decent tragic origin, have a clear-enough goal, and the commanders can all make for obvious boss battles centered on whatever planets they are individually conquering (I think Dark Oka's final form was some planet sized Biolante/King Ghidorah which makes for a fun final boss).
Its decent possibilities right there.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Edited by BorneAgain on Feb 19th 2023 at 4:14:30 AM