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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#70526: Jan 3rd 2023 at 4:32:37 PM

Amy wasn't made to be an action character.

Now she is, but the writers are struggling because....well, there are a lot of reasons I imagine, many of which have been made here. I suspect it's that usual issue some game makers have with their female characters that still often happens in modern games.

Things might have been different if Amy was made to be a playable character from the get go but so it goes.

I recall someone posted a link a long time ago to an old interview where someone involved in Amy's creation talked a bit about it, and said she was basically just made to be a love struck girl because it was cute....maybe.

This was long time ago, as is often the case, so the exact words of the interview escape me. I know something like that was here, and I even remember responding to it, but I'll admit my word on what exact was said can't be taken at face value.

I still say things would be different if Blaze had been created first.

One Strip! One Strip!
Teamkirin5 Soft Boi from You don't need to know. Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Soft Boi
#70527: Jan 3rd 2023 at 4:48:33 PM

She may not have been made to be an Action Girl, but Character Development ended up turning her into one. What matters is that her original personality (kind, loving, determined, The Heart ) is still intact. The best of both worlds, in my opinion.

We all have to answer to the call of fate when it beckons us, even if it is not at a moment of our choosing.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#70528: Jan 3rd 2023 at 4:52:12 PM

I've always been pretty fascinated by Boom's decision to make her an archeologist. It's such a fun idea: that of the main group, Amy is - like - the explorer of the group. Sonic's the adventurer of course, loving the travel, see new things, face new rivals, etc. But that Amy's whole thing is delving into those new places and things and learning about them.

Kind of like the anti-Knuckles, who is surrounded by fascinating history and locales but only really cares about learning about them so far as it helps him protect the ME.

It's a fun niche that occasionally gave her unique things to do, and I would've loved it if media outside of Boom retained it. Fiction could always use more explorer characters.

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#70529: Jan 3rd 2023 at 4:58:26 PM

I recall someone posted a link a long time ago to an old interview where someone involved in Amy's creation talked a bit about it, and said she was basically just made to be a love struck girl because it was cute....maybe.
Amy was made by request by the marketing division of Sega who wanted a "Minnie" to Sonic's "Mickey". But the creators decided to make her a love-struck girl with a one-sided affection towards Sonic because they thought it would go against Sonic's character if he was tied down in a relationship like Mickey and Minnie.
I don't think this what you're talking about, but I remember reading once that a fan asked the guy who made Amy's modern redesign why he redesigned her as such, and if it was make her more out-going and better female representation or something along those lines. And the guy was confused and laughed and said he designed her that way because it's cute. "Isn't she cute?"
I still say things would be different if Blaze had been created first.
Ah, yes. Imagine.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/d2syn9o_f46131cc_6334_4a4b_9b11_70ab45e9c736.png

Edited by KuroBaraHime on Jan 3rd 2023 at 7:58:41 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70530: Jan 3rd 2023 at 4:59:41 PM

I could buy the criticism that Amy's current characterization is about as generic as they could've possibly chosen to go with her, or even that they chose to respond to her having a problematic personality by just giving her less of a personality in general.

I don't think I've seen anything that isn't Pokemon play the standard slew of "the generic girl in an ensemble of male characters" tropes this straight in years. She's is now playing straight the character type Boom was actively using her to make fun of.

I personally been giving it a pass because it's clear they don't quite know what they even want to do with the character yet and might end up building on this somehow, but if so I hope it comes soon because she could seriously use some fleshing out.

This is my biggest problem with Amy. She's boring now.

I get it, because as mentioned, most hardcore and casual fans didn't appreciate her personality mostly revolving around her feelings for the main character.

So the "solution" was to essentially to remove all of her unique traits and just make her another generic hero, who just so happens to be a female.

I feel like its extremely telling that, out of all of the complaints of Character Derailment and Flanderization in the series, Amy is the only who is actively praised by the fanbase for removing traits that were deemed "problematic". So all you're left is just a void of a character.

I think the Pariah-held opinion I disagree with most is actually a subject I've seen legitimate debate around. Specifically that Shadow, post Black Arms invasion, shouldnt give two figs about Maria or any of the ideals he shared with her because he "put his past behind him" at the end of that game. Its strange. Because to me it was a statement about living life in the moment as you are and not being bound by your past. But some interpret that as erasing his past entirely. Which would leave him as kind of an empty character.

It depends on how you interpret the ending. But bare in mind that he's going off the original Japanese script.

Whether you believe it isn't as valid as the dub or not is up to you.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:02:27 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#70531: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:04:38 PM

I just thought she was boring ever since I was a kid, to be blunt. Unlikeable when they played her crush for comedy.

But what do I know, I'm just some guy on the internet.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#70532: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:05:32 PM

I mean, I'd agree that they've largely sanded her personality down a bit too far. But having her able to participate with everyone else is the opposite of making her boring.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#70533: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:05:49 PM

Amy was made by request by the marketing division of Sega who wanted a "Minnie" to Sonic's "Mickey". But the creators decided to make her a love-struck girl with a one-sided affection towards Sonic because they thought it would go against Sonic's character if he was tied down in a relationship like Mickey and Minnie.

I don't think this what you're talking about, but I remember reading once that a fan asked the guy who made Amy's modern redesign why he redesigned her as such, and if it was make her more out-going and better female representation or something along those lines. And the guy was confused and laughed and said he designed her that way because it's cute. "Isn't she cute?"

Actually, I think that second part is the interview I was talking about.

One Strip! One Strip!
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#70534: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:07:01 PM

Some of this possibly came down from Sega and Sonic Team potentially over-correcting to the seemingly negative view of what they considered to the casual/broad audience to have of the series and a few characters.

I've always wondered if they got feedback or observed that enough people just viewed Amy as just being Sonic's crazy in love stalker; thus with so many of the figures downplayed after 06 she had to be retooled to keep one female character around consistently and potentially get away from the increasingly critical views people had of the cast.

Essentially the nuanced take some of the core fandom had of Amy may have been seen as either not being noticeable enough to everyone else or simply not sufficient to make her acceptable in broader gaming culture at that point. Especially for western audiences, even if 06 hadn't happened and the backlash against Sonic's friends was as pronounced as it was, there was probably still a ticking clock on Amy continuing to be largely characterized by her love for Sonic (and subtly defined outside that) regardless.

Edited by BorneAgain on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:16:49 AM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#70535: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:19:53 PM

I'll speculate a bit over what happened.

Amy was dropped from the series, not out on unpopularity, Sonic Team just didn't want more side characters for a while. Sonic Colors releases, and she isn't around. Pontac never writes for her. The DS edition comes out, and nobody cares outside of side characters fans for 15 minutes.

Sonic Generations happened. Now Pontac has to write Amy, and he does the bare minimum: one sided crush on Sonic, fangirl, whatev. Nobody cares.

THEN, Lost World happens. Pontac finally gets to write Amy. What does he do? He writes her compassionate side, because believe it or not, Sega of America did hear of the low popularity Amy got, and a harmful reputation to the character doesn't help them. Maybe they asked Pontac to include her in a positive role, and well, it happened. Amy is shown as caring, always trusting Sonic. But it's unremarkable.

Then Sonic Boom happened. The creators specifically wanted to rewrite Amy for their universe, the same way Knuckles was. She was more capable, a pure western action girl. The rewrites happened, and she turned sassy but well meaning. Pontac wrote her version similarly, but baddly. For a while, this was our only reference of Amy: a competent action girl, or as the bad tongues say, "THE GURL".

Then Forces happened and Amy is Generic Side Character number 2 in a game full of generic side characters and Silver and Shadow.

And Team Sonic Racing does nothing particulary relevant with Amy based on her old characterization; instead Pontac writes her similarly to the Boom counterpart. In fact, IDW for a while wrote her similarly to the Boom counterpart until the Metal Virus ended.

And we get Frontiers, where Amy is...essentially THE GURL in the tie-in comic, but then the caring girl again because there's no room for a one-sided crush played for humor in a game dealing with the melodrama of death. It's not like Amy could have, I dunno, have her own event where Sonic has to race against her because she wants to hug him or something.

And Prime has Amy again. And three variations of her.

Essentially, Amy lost her Running Gag and it wasn't replaced, ended up generic. Oh well.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70536: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:19:58 PM

I just laugh at the opinion that Amy is boring or has no personality now. That's just impossible to take seriously.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#70537: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:23:09 PM

"Character has no personality" is mostly used for destructive criticism, tbh.

Infinite has no personality.

Edited by Tomodachi on Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:24:24 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70538: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:24:05 PM

[up][up]Well then you tell me what unique traits she has nowadays then?

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:24:18 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#70539: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:25:34 PM

She's Sonic's female friend.

I just said she lost her Running Gag and nobody bothered to write another. I don't think she has anything interesting about her, but again, I'm just some guy on a forum talking of a character who attracts shippers for a blue rodent.

[down] Not even Pariah says anything about Amy to the same extent as Tails and Knuckles. He hates Tails being turned into a smart-only-guy when he was as capable as Sonic, or Knuckles into a moron. Amy? He doesn't like her as an action girl, which is something Heroes established.

Edited by Tomodachi on Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:33:46 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#70540: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:29:17 PM

Something I'm realizing now is that Amy also likely lacked the same kind of protective passion the broader fanbase had for the likes of Tails and Knuckles. Whereas the cowardly nature of the former in Forces and the dumb depiction in the Boom cartoon got relatively noticeable outrage, complaints about Amy being more actionized and less lovesick were tellingly muted by comparison. Some of that was from people preferring that take, but I suspect some of it was because a decent amount were just less invested in her to begin with.

Edited by BorneAgain on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:33:38 AM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70541: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:32:01 PM

As long as Amy's new portrayal is liked by the fanbase at large I don't see any basis for calling her boring or lacking in personality. Especially when in Amy's case, the fanbase at large considers her characterization in Frontiers and the IDW comic to be far batter than the fangirl stalker she was before.

Edited by VeryMelon on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:33:23 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#70542: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:34:37 PM

Her new portrayal doesn't do anything for interactions with other characters if the other characters aren't used...

That doesn't really add much at the moment.

She interacted with characters a ton in the comics and Sonic X, I like her being as openly snarky as she is friendly.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70543: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:35:13 PM

I don't care what the larger fanbase thinks. We're talking about a group of people who pick something to argue about every week on social media.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:36:07 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70544: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:37:44 PM

Then why should anyone care about a Vocal Minority claiming Amy's a bland character now? It goes both ways when you do something like that.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70545: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:39:54 PM

We're not talking about a vocal minority though, we're talking about the current subject of the topic.

EDIT: Like if that's stance you're gonna take, then there's really no point in even discussing this.

"If the fans aren't complaining, then that means its perfectly fine and that's all that matters" isn't exactly a topic worth discussing.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:41:48 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70546: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:42:15 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#70547: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:47:49 PM

Yes, Amy is boring now.

A character being boring or having no real traits to get attached to isn't really a thing that has stopped people from liking characters.

If all people are saying is that she's better now and the thing they're saying is better is that she's not like before...who cares about that?

They're not praising what's there, they're just praising that the bad stuff is gone.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70548: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:49:34 PM

[up][up]You're acting like I didn't already know that. Like no shit, I'm just some dude on the Internet. But I don't really understand the dismissive tone you had about it, especially since that's really unlike you.

If you didn't care about the topic, then you didn't really have to tell us "This opinion isn't worth taking seriously." When I asked you how you felt about it so you could participate in the discussion, you just said "fans like it, so it doesn't matter what I think."

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jan 3rd 2023 at 8:52:22 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#70549: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:50:30 PM

That's an odd observation.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#70550: Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:51:56 PM

Yeah I don't know where you were going with that Yak. Again, I didn't start this conversation, you did. I didn't end it either, again that was you, just with putting words in my mouth this time.


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