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ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#69476: Nov 26th 2022 at 4:03:36 PM

Is this gonna be another one of those "Eggman's never killed anyone" things again?

That or some serious Doing In the Wizard, possibly on the level of BIONICLE.

My musician page
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69477: Nov 26th 2022 at 4:05:13 PM

Even if it doesn't exist now it sure existed in the Storybook series, Tails' Skypatrol, and Shuffle. XD

EDIT: Funny you should say that, I posted an entry on Doing In the Wizard just now about Frontiers' outer-space revelations for the Chaos Emeralds, and updated the Archie Comics' Sonic entry about them too.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 26th 2022 at 7:08:13 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#69478: Nov 26th 2022 at 4:18:56 PM

[up] Not to mention the Olympics crossover games with Mario, whose universe has openly been chock-full of magic since 1985.

Edited by TrashJack on Nov 26th 2022 at 7:20:25 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69479: Nov 26th 2022 at 4:33:32 PM

So the Egg Wizards are just a facet of Eggman's childish nature, he likes the fictional magicks.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69480: Nov 26th 2022 at 5:01:42 PM

On a funnier topic, this question and the followup have me rolling from how anticlimactic they are.

"Sonic’s dead. Nope, that’s it. He’s just dead. No, Eggman didn’t defeat him. No, there wasn’t some tragic accident or ultimate sacrifice. He died in his sleep. Why? Beats me. Maybe it was Cardiac Arrest from having one too many chili dogs at Chocola’s birthday bash. Who knows? Regardless, he is dead. What is the reaction from Sonic’s friends, foes, and most importantly Eggman to the blue hedgehog’s sudden and underwhelming demise?

Previous question again, only this time with a twist. Eggman is dead, and somehow his death is even more disappointing. Cubot mistakenly mixed up the coffee creamer with engine coolant. Oops. What is the reaction from Sonic & Co, the badniks (Orbot, Cubot, Metal Sonic, etc.), the public, and other foes like Zavok? If he weren’t the one meeting him at the gate, how would Starline react?"

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#69481: Nov 26th 2022 at 6:41:35 PM

Flynn didnt include Sage among the characters reacting. Anyway, Zavok just laughing at the second Made me laugh.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69482: Nov 26th 2022 at 7:10:13 PM

Tbh, looking back I could actually buy the claim that magic isn't a thing in Sonic's universe - but only if you discount the Storybook games.

It's funny it came up, because I remember making a post about this sort of thing just a few days ago. Sonic doesn't really face off against high fantasy tropes very often. The closest he gets to that are gods (and/or godlike beings) who are generally energy or elemental beings that - as Frontiers shows - can be kind of genre-less on their own and can be applied to sci-fi just as easily as fantasy without skipping a beat.

The storybook games are the exception, both involving magic spells sending Sonic into fictional worlds, featuring explicitly magical beings like genies and such, and the second having an straight up wizard as a principal character and also the Big Bad. And it feels like the only thing Sega's ever done to officially acknowledge those games was a nod in Generations, which was like ten years ago.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69483: Nov 26th 2022 at 7:12:25 PM

They take place in different dimensions, so it still makes sense. In those books, magic exists. Outside in the real world, it doesn't. Remember, he does enter said books after all.

Albeit, I don't remember magic anywhere else, so that might still not work anyway.

Shadow?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69484: Nov 26th 2022 at 7:13:41 PM

The Dark Gaia wizards also don't count...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69485: Nov 26th 2022 at 7:22:17 PM

Witchcart was magic, but she was only in one game, while Shuffle's dream worlds are like magic but also Another Dimension.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69486: Nov 26th 2022 at 7:29:30 PM

I'm not sure. I think if there are explicitly dimensions in The 'Verse that are magic, and there are spells to bring characters back and forth or can affect non-magical dimensions, and the characters experience those spells, that still counts as magic existing in the characters' "world." It's basically how the MCU handles magic, for instance.

That said, Ian Flynn brings that exact thing up in the OP's link and is very tongue in cheek about it supposedly making sense ("It's very airtight and consistent, I don't know what you're talking about..."), so he's aware of the weirdness.

I'll chalk this up to another current mandate that isn't really designed to make sense with previous media - basically saying "this is the way the universe is supposed to be going forward." They're basically saying to writers "never make anything explicitly magical again" with the usual "never mind about the previous stuff." Inb4 everything becomes Ancients' tech instead.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 26th 2022 at 7:36:30 AM

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69487: Nov 26th 2022 at 7:39:41 PM

Yeah, the "don't make anything else magic again" is far far better than trying to remove already magical stuff in the game(you can separate at least two books into special universes at best, and that's questionable cause said books are pretty much magical. There's nothing suggesting they're technology-portals to another world), and even if you remove a few spin-offs... as noted, the Dark Gaia Wizards exist. They aren't like the Egg Wizards either, who could be argued to be technology.

Like, hey, if they don't want to deal with magic again, that's fine. It's not like it's a necessity.

Shadow?
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#69488: Nov 26th 2022 at 7:57:36 PM

Sonic has always had a bit of an odd relationship with magic; the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald were pretty staunchly 'There might be a non-magical explanation for what the chaos emeralds do, but fuck if I know what that is!' in the genesis games. Meanwhile, in the adventure games, Chaos was pretty magical, and while Tails could use tech to replicate a chaos emeralds, there was still mysticism to them. Even as late as unleashed, they were tied into the lifeblood of the world somehow, able to repair it while recharging themselves.

Indeed, even in the most science fiction Sonic Game to date, there's hints that the chaos gems are something distinctly 'what the fuck' that not even the original users had a full understanding of.

I have a personal wild mass guesstheorywild mass guess about them and what they do/are, but it's spoilers.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69489: Nov 26th 2022 at 8:01:39 PM

And that's not even getting into the Master and Super Emeralds...

The Protomen enhanced my life.
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#69490: Nov 26th 2022 at 8:04:17 PM

wild mass guess My pet theory is that the Chaos Emeralds and the Master Emerald are a sort of 'opposite' to The End, who insists they are order and the void, whereas the chaos emeralds are, obviously, chaos, energy, change, 'Power, enriched by the heart,' life in general. Maybe not a direct opposite, but sort of their antithesis, like The End is an evil master emerald, or something.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69491: Nov 26th 2022 at 8:13:47 PM

My only theory I've had is the current Chaos Emeralds are actually the Super Emeralds.

I don't remember much, but Knuckles and Tails' auras in Sonic Heroes were because they were still super-powered, just differently. That, and the Super Emeralds are literal upgrades to the Chaos Emeralds, apparently permanent ones.

...Incidentally, as I read a bit ago, there were 14 emeralds planned in Adventure 1 or 2(I forget which one), so they were meant to come back. Probably 1, since it has Perfect Chaos, just like the mural in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Best time to reuse them if any.

Shadow?
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#69492: Nov 26th 2022 at 9:32:03 PM

Someone should mod Sonic Frontiers to play “I’ve Got A Golden Ticket” whenever you get a Gold Card from Big’s Fishing Minigame.

Once Upon A Time.
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#69493: Nov 26th 2022 at 10:19:06 PM

Well in the case of Sonic Shuffle, it's explicitly a dream universe (containing other universes) that is sustained by a McGuffin.

So something is only "magic" in that universe in the context of the dream situation it comes from, and has a pseudo-scientific explanation via said McGuffin.

... There's no explanation for Witchkart, though - it's literally in her name.

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#69494: Nov 27th 2022 at 12:33:46 PM

Thus far Sonic Frontiers is… ok. It’s a massive step in the right direction (especially in terms of the story and writing) but the game’s physics (especially the extremely stiff platforming controls in 2D sections), presentation, and world design are pretty rough. The cutscenes are very obviously in 30 FPS when the game runs at 60 FPS on PC and have lower visual quality than actual gameplay. The pop-in is not only very noticeable but the low draw distance actually makes it harder to locate platforming challenges. The open world, while fun to explore and has a lot to find (in particular I think the freedom with how you can approach the various collectibles is an amazing high point), feels like an empty map with various obstacle courses thrown in rather than an actual world. I would love to see a sequel that takes this new formula and refines it but knowing Sonic Team that’s kind of a coin flip.

Once Upon A Time.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#69495: Nov 27th 2022 at 2:21:06 PM

I thought the presentation and world design were fine, but its such a recurrent criticism from people who have played it and haven't I guess different strokes.

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#69496: Nov 27th 2022 at 5:35:58 PM

I will say the story and writing are pretty good. I may not be the biggest fan of the more somber tone but it at least handles it well, stays consistent with it, and the dialogue is quite well written.

Once Upon A Time.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69497: Nov 27th 2022 at 9:39:30 PM

I wonder how Sage is going to be used going forward. It's not like Eggman's going to stop doing evil stuff, so is she going to be the Token Good Teammate of the Eggman Empire? Is she going to be the advisor who points out when Eggman's plans are getting too reckless, much like Orbot was initially the guy who pointed out when Eggman's plans were ceasing to make sense? Are we going to get, like, a customary Sage-controlled boss fight in future games?

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 27th 2022 at 9:40:56 AM

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#69498: Nov 28th 2022 at 5:27:22 AM

[up]I have my suspicions about that: Hopefully, she'll be a voice of reason for him, a 'Are you sure you have enough egg carriers to keep the god you released this week from rebelling against you' kind of figure for him. Maybe even a Friendly Enemy to Sonic. Heck, maybe she can be the main protagonist of the Eggman Empire 4x Spinoff, conquer the world for daddy while he's having a power nap.

Rabbitearsblog Movie and TV Goddess from United States Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Movie and TV Goddess
#69499: Nov 28th 2022 at 10:26:16 AM

You know, I feel really tempted to call the 2010s era of Sonic the Hedgehog the "Experimental Era" because this was the decade where SEGA was experimenting with lots of different gameplay styles for the franchise, such as trying to do a Mario-esque gameplay with Sonic Lost World and trying to combine both 2D and 3D gameplay with both Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations. Also, this was the decade they tried to do a spin off series for the franchise called Sonic Boom. But that didn't turn out well.

I love animation, TV, movies, YOU NAME IT!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#69500: Nov 28th 2022 at 10:31:26 AM

The same could be said of the pre-2000's when they were experimenting with handheld, 2.5 d gameplay with two screens, 3D gameplay, team-based and mission-based gameplay, a hero and villain system, major theatrical overtones, and darker storytelling in general.

-

I just went back and did 1-5 again just so I could finish Kronos Island, thinking I would play through Chemical Plant and get a feel for the route, mess up plenty.

Got to the end and I had an S Rank with the only goal I missed being the Red Ring requirement.

So much easier than 1-2.

Edited by FOFD on Nov 28th 2022 at 1:33:54 PM


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