TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

Go To

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69401: Nov 23rd 2022 at 6:21:50 AM

My bad. I’m speaking of the Japanese game scripts. I know he’s cruel in various comics, thanks to being informed that earlier on here. :)

Shadow?
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#69402: Nov 23rd 2022 at 6:29:43 AM

Re: Flynn. The most common criticisms I've seen of his writing as it pertains to the IDW comics are:

  • Sonic's forgiving nature being flanderized to the point of foolishness when in the games he is a lot more punishing of foes and doesn't really go out of his way to try and sway them to his side.

  • Overuse of references to songs from the games.

  • Focus on canon foreigners over the game cast.

  • His writing of Shadow, which some have argued isn't really as much Sega's fault as some have implied. It's not helped that even Flynn has stated that the mandates aren't as strict as people have been led to believe.

  • Arcs that drag on for too long.

YMMV on the validity of these criticisms.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69403: Nov 23rd 2022 at 6:43:15 AM

He references a lot more than just Songs in writing, it's not constant...but references can grate on some popple.

—-

On the other hand, focusing on Comic characters over game characters is less valid...since it probably comes from people who "only" played the games and are unaware how long the comics have been running.

You can criticize this, but it's not an actual problem with the comic.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Negacube Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#69404: Nov 23rd 2022 at 7:10:46 AM

@DevilSketch36: IMO, Ian and Sega's approaches are fundamentally different due to the nature of their media.

  • Sega's approach changes depending on what the higher-ups think will sell, who's on the team this time around, and the systems they're working on (at least in theory; they've screwed that last part up time and time again).
  • They have to deal with the actual gameplay, which results in the occasional Enjoy the Story, Skip the Game (Black Knight) or Play the Game, Skip the Story (Shadow, although in that case it's more "skip both").
  • They have to appeal a very wide market, from kids to casuals to diehard fans to critics to people that maybe played once or twice back in the 90's to "content creators" that dunk on the series for the clicks, all around the world.
Due to all these variables and limitations, Sega throws ideas at the wall to see what sticks while keeping around some basic ideas as a backup. Hence the Mood Whiplash, reuse of the exact same Nostalgia Levels since Generations, Gameplay Roulette, etc.

By contrast, Ian is an Ascended Fan with an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the franchise, has worked on a single "system" (serialized comic books), and has worked with the same crew for over 15 years. He knows what he likes and what his fans like, so he tries to play to those strengths.

  • He doesn't have to take gameplay or system requirements into account, he can focus purely on plot and characterization.
  • He loves continuity and references, and he prefers salvaging "bad" ideas to letting them die or keeping them around without changing them like Sega does.
  • He works on a serialized comic, he can afford to take his time a bit.
  • The comic fanbase is a small subset of the wider Sonic fanbase, most of whom are American or English. He has a specific niche he can focus on and appeal to.
So a lot of criticism I've seen is based on things like Arc Fatigue (Archie's Iron Dominion arc, the Metal Virus, sometimes the Shattered World Crisis, etc.), Reference Overdosed, Continuity Lock-Out (Frontiers, Archie), and concepts trying to be too "serious" and falling flat (the Metal Virus again, Sonic's morality in IDW, etc.).

Edited by Negacube on Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:14:50 AM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#69405: Nov 23rd 2022 at 8:31:50 AM

My biggest criticisms of Flynn, as a writer, tend to lie in his style: he loves to use a larger cast, to reference song lyrics and make nods to continuity. He is a nerd.

He originally also added fanfic traits in his earlier writing, but these sorts of dropped over the years. For example, he made fun of Amy being a psycho and had Sonic call Shadow "faker" as an affectionate nickname. These made sense in the fandom at the time, but over the years came more inspired by osmosis- The only fanon thing you could say he still uses is the Tails Doll being creepy, and even then he has nothing to work around that character that has no bio like most Eggman mech.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#69406: Nov 23rd 2022 at 8:57:46 AM

You are talking on the internet about a series with woodland creatures as main characters. You don't get to use "he is a nerd" as an issue.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#69407: Nov 23rd 2022 at 9:00:08 AM

lol, point taken. I meant it as "the guy is enthusiastic about the work and loves to reference it", but I understand it can be misinterpreted it.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69409: Nov 23rd 2022 at 9:18:20 AM

I enjoy the continuity references for the most part—some Waxing Lyrical stuff went into narm cause I 'heard' it as the songs—but I also get how newer fans could get lost or people who don't care about the references would be annoyed.

For Archie my biggest criticisms at the time were the endings to stories being kinda weak or rushed after a lot of buildup, particularly the 'Sonic is defeated' arc in 175 that was over by 177. IIRC that was partly due to a mandate, but it still felt really anticlimactic.

For IDW, I'd say while the endings to arcs have improved, the stories have the opposite problem of feeling too long since every year is a 'season' of the comic, which has the side effect of stuff feeling decompressed. Sonic's characterization did bother me a little with Surge, but I think that might be because we know the full extent of her Tragic Villain status while Sonic doesn't.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#69410: Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:48:47 AM

His writing of Shadow, which some have argued isn't really as much Sega's fault as some have implied. It's not helped that even Flynn has stated that the mandates aren't as strict as people have been led to believe.

For what it’s worth, I feel like his writing for Shadow was pretty good back in the Archie days, so I do think it’s probably more the mandates’ fault.

Oh God! Natural light!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#69411: Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:58:40 AM

I rather like they gave him an arc of trying to rescue Gamma from Omega.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69412: Nov 23rd 2022 at 11:01:36 AM

Omega is biased.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#69414: Nov 23rd 2022 at 12:01:53 PM

I do wish he would tone it down with the references by like, 20%.

Sometimes they make sense. Like, I really liked it when Sonic listed all of Tails' accomplishments to try and cheer him up.

But then Tails will mention Dark Gaia out of nowhere and I'll just be like "Come on."

Kaze ni Nare!
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#69415: Nov 23rd 2022 at 12:13:08 PM

I can agree on the Dark Gaia reference being a bit out of place...because they really should have referenced the Gaia Temples given how the lore of the Chaos Emeralds goes now.

diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#69416: Nov 23rd 2022 at 12:15:31 PM

I find it weird that Sonic name drops Tikal, but not Chaos. At least, not by the end of the second island he hasn't. There's still time.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69417: Nov 23rd 2022 at 12:18:39 PM

[up][up]What the game actually shows of this thing doesn't contradict anything in Unleashed's story.

Edited by randomness4 on Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:19:34 PM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#69418: Nov 23rd 2022 at 12:19:55 PM

Maybe the Chaos Emeralds originated on Sonic's world after all, and something (possibly even the Ancients themselves, though if that's true, they somehow managed to forget that Sonic's world existed and that the Emeralds weren't native to their own world) caused them to go off-world and end up in the Ancients' custody some time after the last Gaia cycle ended but well before The End showed up to destroy the Ancients' homeworld? If that's the case, then the Master Emerald wasn't just attracting the Chaos Emeralds, it was calling them back home (with the surviving Ancients along for the ride).

Edited by TrashJack on Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:21:41 PM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#69419: Nov 23rd 2022 at 12:38:13 PM

Btw, does the game ever explain or imply why the Ancients look like Chaos? Has Chaos been retconned into being a renegade Ancient or something?

Kaze ni Nare!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69420: Nov 23rd 2022 at 12:48:14 PM

The Egg Memos will "tell" you.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69421: Nov 23rd 2022 at 1:02:39 PM

Essentially, Eggman theorizes that not all the Ancients died out, but that over time their species evolved into new beings only vaguely similar to what they used to be - resulting in Chaos. If Chaos is still canonically related to the Chao, that would mean that Chao are the modern form of the Ancient species, in the same way the chicken is the modern form of the T-Rex.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 23rd 2022 at 1:04:28 AM

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69422: Nov 23rd 2022 at 1:11:21 PM

I thought the Koco became the Chao.

EDIT: Given Dark Gaia's whole deal i can see someone flinging the Chaos Emeralds off-planet in an attempt to neutralize him.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 23rd 2022 at 4:13:18 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#69423: Nov 23rd 2022 at 2:23:09 PM

Tikal is mentioned when? I don't remember her being mentioned in Frontiers.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#69424: Nov 23rd 2022 at 2:25:04 PM

Sonic mentions her to Knuckles at one point when theorizing about the Ancients.

diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#69425: Nov 23rd 2022 at 5:17:28 PM

Chaos Island definitely earns its name but... I'm not sure if I like it or not yet.


Total posts: 84,033
Top