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BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#69126: Nov 15th 2022 at 5:32:25 PM

I mean at the very least, Frontiers is a solid base to work off of. There's a decent gameplay loop established, so making the platforms more organic to the setting, improving Cyberspace levels, and potentially including other characters (even if not necessarily in the open world yet) does feel feasible for a sequel.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69127: Nov 15th 2022 at 5:34:46 PM

I wasn't presenting the point of Sonic Team being unable to handle another game of this scale as a consensus or even an opinion...I just said it as an objective statement.

—-

From what I've gathered, Sonic controls well and it's fun to run around the environments and traverse the parts that aren't automated. People even like the combat despite its simplicity.

I however do not believe that Sonic Team has the capability to make a world that actually utilizes Sonic's abilities because of all the things I've already said. Automation, railroading, 2D sections, floating platforms and rails divorced from the actual geometry of the environment.

This is why I think another Open World game isn't the best thing for them to do, all of this stuff doesn't belong in an open world game...it's kind of the antithesis.

There's not even any reason to think they'll stop doing this because all of it (besides the floating platforms) has been a crutch of Sonic gameplay for years.

Edited by randomness4 on Nov 15th 2022 at 8:37:45 AM

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69128: Nov 15th 2022 at 5:40:44 PM

Eh, I'd call it subjective overall regardless. But thank you for still confirming what you meant. smile

Shadow?
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#69129: Nov 15th 2022 at 6:05:31 PM

I still think the rails are neat. Rail-grinding was one of the funner parts of Sonic Heroes, so having them all over the place in a digital dimension? to connect different parts of the island is pretty ingenious.

The automation comes in handy for the Squid fights. Staying on that track would be a nightmare otherwise.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69130: Nov 15th 2022 at 6:15:04 PM

I mean, rails are neat...

When used creatively like with some of the bosses and when they aren't just a one way path.

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Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#69131: Nov 15th 2022 at 6:30:41 PM

You say that like this is a side-effect of the game getting rushed and not, you know, the literal intentional design.

The overworld is designed as a mostly flat ground with many platforming challenges above it, it would take more effort to code in a 2d plane in the open world than to not, it would take more effort to add rails to the game than to not.

If SEGA gets feedback and sees "okay so people like the game but hate these specific parts", then it's not going to take much for them to decide "alright so our formula works but we need to take another look at the world design".

So no, it's not objective :p

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69132: Nov 15th 2022 at 6:43:48 PM

I didn't say it wasn't intentional.

I'm not really sure how saying Sonic Team intentionally made an open world that doesn't have level design with platforming naturally baked into it is suppose to be seen as good thing either.

Considering what people have been saying about the last 2 islands and the narrative at that point in the game, it still may have been rushed anyway.

Edited by randomness4 on Nov 15th 2022 at 9:45:36 AM

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MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#69133: Nov 15th 2022 at 6:52:12 PM

Yeah Kronos did seem partitioned off, even the theme naming hints at it (for refernce the thirst three islands are named after Greek gods, yes, but the namesakes hail form different generations or rather era of the hellinistic myths. Kronos himself is the head of the Titans, Ares is an Olympian and Chaos is the Protogenoi from whom the other protogenoi spawned from. Rhea and Uranos are meanwhile other titans)

Supreme also looks more like a palette swap of Knight IMO (people keep comparing it Giganto apparently) so that might or might not be another clue.wild mass guess

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Nov 15th 2022 at 6:52:24 AM

Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#69134: Nov 15th 2022 at 7:17:45 PM

Supreme literally reuses animations from Giganto (like the "kneeling at 0 hp" animation and the "Sonic's counter" animation), and has a similar body shape.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#69135: Nov 15th 2022 at 7:40:31 PM

Ah.

Anyway I have decided to compile a list of the Cyberspace track names...by isolating them from the rest of the tracks on the Sonic wiki's page for the OST:

  • Kronos:
    • Database
    • Flowing
    • Digital Cave
    • Genshi
    • Dropaholic
    • Go Back 2 Your Roots
    • Time Flyer
  • Ares:
    • Slice and Sway
    • Heavenly Sky
    • Nostalgic Sweep
    • Hype Street
    • Deja Vu
    • Transparent Highway
    • Floating in the Blue
  • Chaos:
    • Escape the Loop
    • Go Slap
    • Memory Will Tell
    • Constrcture
    • BMBnote 
    • Enjoy This World
    • All Reality
  • Uranos:
    • Exceed Mach
    • Ephemeral
    • Rumble Rave
    • Wishes in the Wind
    • Arrow of Time
    • Fog Funk
    • Rewind to Go Ahead
    • No Pain, No Gain
    • Signs

Again these are listed in OST order so they should correspond to the order of Cyberspace stages. 4-9 is Signs for instance (and BMB is 3-5 for those heeding my request). My Favorites so far are Genshi, Digital Cave, Arrow of Time, Signs, Wishes in the Wind, Ephemeral and Deja Vu.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Nov 15th 2022 at 7:56:55 AM

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#69136: Nov 15th 2022 at 8:04:35 PM

There were points in the game where I feel like the design begged for mechanics from the other characters. On the first island, Amy kept showing up in high places, but I didn't think much of it. But it clicked for me in the second area. The second area is filled with sheer cliff walls perfect for climbing with Knuckles. Amy being high up? She hammer jumps. Tails' area was filled with disconnected islands he could fly to. This open stage collectathon design has a ton of potential if they're willing to expand it.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#69137: Nov 15th 2022 at 11:56:36 PM

The concensus amongst my IRL sonic friendship group is that the open world sections are by far the best parts of the game and the thing that make this game great, so it's definitely something I want to see built on in at least one more sonic game.

The verticality of the world's works well, as you can travel mostly mindlessly at ground level when you need to, but can really optimise your speed by traveling at height when navigating challenges or faster routes. It's quite rewarding.

The combat and movement works well for the overworld (if the enemies and terrain are designed around it) but struggles in cyberspace sue to how slow and clunky it feels in 2D.

Though I love that cyberspace are short levels that you are really given a reason to optermise. That's required me to think way more critically about Sonic's movement and route than I ever have before, so that game play loop is a solid win for me, even if the movement in cyberspace need a lot of work.

I think the main thing that hampered this game is that Saga released it when the developers said it wasnt finished yet and they wanted more time. Saga's lack of faith in their product and their dev team seems to be a constant Thron in this franchise.

Rabbitearsblog Movie and TV Goddess from United States Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Movie and TV Goddess
#69138: Nov 16th 2022 at 1:33:45 AM

I do wonder if SEGA is ever going to treat the dev team better down the line...

I love animation, TV, movies, YOU NAME IT!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#69139: Nov 16th 2022 at 4:30:50 AM

2D sections in 3D Sonic need to go if you ask me.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69140: Nov 16th 2022 at 4:42:08 AM

If they need to stay, they should be clearly marked, mostly optional, and actually play well like Mario Odyssey's 2D sections.

MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#69141: Nov 16th 2022 at 5:31:02 AM

Or hell let Taxman and Stealth have a crack at them if they can handle it.

Are explosions science?
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#69142: Nov 16th 2022 at 5:33:54 AM

I miss having a 2D side series. Advance through Rush, plus Colors DS, were great.

MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#69143: Nov 16th 2022 at 5:39:39 AM

Right now we have fans having to carry that on and even then its in the style of Mega Drive sonic rtaher than Advance or DS Sonic.

Not that I miss Super Sonic being final boss exclusive mind you

Are explosions science?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69144: Nov 16th 2022 at 5:45:29 AM

Sonic Advance only really has its graphical style to make it stand out...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69146: Nov 16th 2022 at 6:51:53 AM

I love how silly a lot of Eggman's lines are on the Sonic Adventure 2 menus. (Shadow and Rouge have some funny lines too XD)

The Protomen enhanced my life.
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#69147: Nov 16th 2022 at 6:52:02 AM

[up][up] Sonic Advance - the first one, at least - is probably one of the most universally liked Sonic games.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#69148: Nov 16th 2022 at 7:16:57 AM

Yeah, 2 and 3 are more polarizing (2 aged badly, 3... is a complicated story), but 1 is consistently understood as a neat continuation of the Classic gameplay with Adventure-era extras.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69149: Nov 16th 2022 at 7:40:32 AM

It being like a continuation of the classic games and the other 2...not being that is why I said that only the graphical style is what gives that series its identity.

There's no synergy between them, they all do different things...nothing that really builds off the previous game that's for sure.

Another Advance game could literally do anything, but all it needs is the name and sprite work to even be considered one.

Edited by randomness4 on Nov 16th 2022 at 10:41:01 AM

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diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#69150: Nov 16th 2022 at 7:55:19 AM

I would disagree with even that. I think the transition of Advance 1 to 2 to 3 is very similar to the one in Sonic 1 to 2 to 3&K.

Edited by diddyknux on Nov 16th 2022 at 9:55:44 AM


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