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MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#69026: Nov 13th 2022 at 9:26:23 AM

Moving on, you think a potential sequel could use more varied settings?

possibly, but so far every open world game bar GTA use the same ol' meadow/desert settings thus far.

That said the Cyberspace levels could also use more variety. There is only 4 themes (Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary and Radical Highway). Like it wouldn't had hurt to give Colors some rep in this regard as that game also dealt with aliens.

Gameplay wise, it would also be interesting if they delved into Lost Worlds gameplay for some of the Cyberspace levels.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#69027: Nov 13th 2022 at 9:30:50 AM

Yeah the jank's there, I feel that. Some of the platforming/climbing is frustrating.

I like the design of the first island. I don't know, the way they made the weird floating rails connect the island is just delicious to me. I remember people thinking it looked ugly and out of place. And I wasn't really sure about it either, but knowing they have a purpose is a thumbs up from me.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#69028: Nov 13th 2022 at 9:35:41 AM

The environments aren't bad per say.

It's just I'd expect more Sonic esque open world environments like a Casino Nights/Stardust Speedway zone.

Like Sonic Colors and Unleashed in particular had such great art direction IMO.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
mstorzil Crimson Helios Since: Nov, 2019
Crimson Helios
#69029: Nov 13th 2022 at 9:51:51 AM

On the YMMV page under That One Boss it says that if you die enough times against The End you get more lives. Is that true? If so, I'm getting Parace L'sia vibes here. I've never played Arcana Heart before, but let's just say after Quarter Guy and Wiidude's Cheapest Fighting Game Bosses list despite never playing it myself she is almost the 1st boss I think of when I think fighting game boss bs. If I'm not thinking of her, I'm thinking of the general. I've never played Kaiser Knuckle either btw. (Sigh) And as someone who's never played a bullet hell game before like Touhou or Mushihimesama Futari, I have a feeling this is going to be a total nightmare. Thank goodness it's only on Hard Mode, so I can just beat Supreme on Normal then switch to Hard after watching the ending.

Edited by mstorzil on Nov 13th 2022 at 9:57:29 AM

No rain could douse the flames that burn within me!
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#69030: Nov 13th 2022 at 10:52:13 AM

Moving on, you think a potential sequel could use more varied settings?

Not sure if it constitutes as a sequel per se, but I would not be opposed that if by some miracle we get a Chaotix game that takes place during or shortly after Frontiers, like how the Ant-Man movies released so far have been set after or during an Avengers movie to provide levity after all the stuff that hit the fan in said Avengers movies (or at least until the mid-credits stinger in Ant-Man and the Wasp's case, IYKYK).

Plus, a Chaotix game would be great for fleshing out the world of Sonic even more since detective work requires learning more about clients and their circumstances. Thing is, what would even look like? At first, I thought of it being a point-and-click, but now I've been thinking Telltale's antics might have poisoned that avenue.

Nowadays, I thought a Chaotix game in the same vein as Yakuza: Like A Dragon (over-the-top RPG-ing minus all the adult stuff like profanity and other unsavory areas) would sound way more exciting. And did the Judgment games have detective work besides following a target without getting caught? Because if they did, they could splice that in, too. Or if Sega is still skeptical about Sonic-adjacent RPGs after the last time, they could just stick with Like A Dragon's original beat-em-up gameplay.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69031: Nov 13th 2022 at 11:01:25 AM

[up][up] You have to be on Hard Mode when you collect the sixth Emerald, IIRC.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
mstorzil Crimson Helios Since: Nov, 2019
Crimson Helios
#69032: Nov 13th 2022 at 11:13:35 AM

Wait, so you can't even rematch the final boss? ... What?! So if I want to try to beat The End I'm gonna have to do the whole game all over again?!

No rain could douse the flames that burn within me!
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#69033: Nov 13th 2022 at 11:14:39 AM

[up]No, you just load from before the last chaos emerald on the last island. You do have to beat Supreme on hard, but you don’t have to change the difficulty any earlier.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Nov 13th 2022 at 2:15:29 PM

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mstorzil Crimson Helios Since: Nov, 2019
Crimson Helios
#69034: Nov 13th 2022 at 11:17:54 AM

Oh, good. That's exactly what I was hoping I could do.

No rain could douse the flames that burn within me!
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69035: Nov 13th 2022 at 4:44:25 PM

Saw an interesting theory about the secret post credits scene that posits Eggman accidentally uploaded some or all of The End to his systems in his efforts to bring back Sage.

With so many theories and speculation about it and what it could mean for the future, I've gone from hoping it was a one-and-done deal to wanting more. The true final boss being a space shoot-em-up helps with that too, I feel like we need a proper fight, maybe with Hyper Sonic.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#69036: Nov 13th 2022 at 6:30:26 PM

Finished the first island. Giving us Super Sonic boss fights throughout the game IS cool, but Its kind of silly to lose the Chaos Emerald and re-collect them each time.

I remember people saying before that starting in the Sonic Adventure games, Sonic had kind of a Shonen anime feel to it that's been lost from Colors onwards. Definitely feels like this game is injecting some of that back in.

ImmaLelouch (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#69037: Nov 13th 2022 at 7:49:46 PM

Yeah, Sonic pre Colors., and especially in the Adventure Era was called Shounen Sonic by people on 4chan both positively and negatively.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69038: Nov 13th 2022 at 8:12:16 PM

Yes, people really did miss having Super Sonic fight giant monsters...and robots.

It's Le Epic.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#69039: Nov 13th 2022 at 8:40:49 PM

I can't say I didn't have a big dumb smile on my face during all of the titan fights. Its dumb anime bullshit and I loved it.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#69040: Nov 13th 2022 at 9:05:11 PM

Yeah, I knew some shounen was happening when we saw that Super Sonic trailer. Wasn't disappointed.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69041: Nov 13th 2022 at 10:16:41 PM

This one feels closer to seinen in some respects, though that might be more 'modern shonen' too.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69042: Nov 13th 2022 at 10:47:16 PM

There's a small genre of shounen that the plot reminds me of. Giant monsters. Apocalyptic themes and stakes, with apocalypses or genocides possibly having happened in the past. Wide cast of characters, with the story composed of individual arcs that are heavily focused on specific characters one by one.

I'm watching through Planet With at the moment and it's fairly similar in how the plot is approached. The Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer might be comparable too. It's still shounen, but based on a different time period / era of shounen.

That said, on a surface level I'd bet even outside of that Evangelion and Attack on Titan came up a lot in the brainstorming sessions, but less where tone is concerned and more in "what does the action look like?" Like, the general idea of this game seems to be "what if Sonic vs Attack on Titan, but the titans were Evangelion mechs?"

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 13th 2022 at 11:11:35 AM

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69043: Nov 13th 2022 at 11:06:52 PM

I found a funny video of what happens when you fail The End's quick time event.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69044: Nov 13th 2022 at 11:22:49 PM

Sonic got self-conscious...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69045: Nov 14th 2022 at 12:10:59 AM

Almost done with Island 3.

I appreciate both how blatantly the chapter is focused on criticizing how all over the place Tails' characterization and role has been across the franchise and yet how respectful the writing still is about it, even reframing the thing it is criticizing in a more positive light while also making clear it intends to overcome it.

On gameplay: Hooooly shit is the pinball "puzzle" way too long. Whoever thought it was a good idea for both the multiplier to reset when you lose a ball and those side hazards to be there is an idiot. One or the other would've been fine.

Negacube Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#69046: Nov 14th 2022 at 12:48:47 AM

Just read Jimquisition's review of Frontiers. They gave it a 1.5/10, citing a bad camera, bad controls, and bad...just about everything. As much as I enjoy the game so far, I've been agreeing with the negative reviews like Jimquistion and Digital Trends much more than I have the middling or positive reviews. Frontiers is not an objectively good game by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm having fun anyway. But fun is a buzzword, so...

The fanbase really needs to stop dogpiling negative reviews. It only reinforces the series' already terrible reputation.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69047: Nov 14th 2022 at 1:17:03 AM

I remember my first bout of review-related anger was an issue of Game Players Magazine that had a promotional blurb for Sonic 3 that said "After a disappointing Sonic 2, this one really blasts onto the scene. Detailed modeling and amazing animation make it even better than Sonic CD! Blue lightning strikes!"

I was furious—not only because I liked Sonic 2 and had yet to try 3 or CD, but because of the memories I'd made playing Sonic 2 with my friend. We never beat the game, but had fun in 2-player mode and single-player for hours. I think I felt like the review, in saying the game was disappointing, was invalidating my fondness for the game and the memories I made with it.

But instead of being grumpy at the magazine, I was grumpy at both Sonic CD and Sonic 3 for a while after that. XD

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 14th 2022 at 4:17:40 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69048: Nov 14th 2022 at 1:20:42 AM

1.5/10 is a insanely low score for a game that actually functions (I've played games with far more jank that have far higher scores - that low is for games literally too broken to actually play), no matter how bad the game is. That seems like a deliberate attempt to Accentuate the Negative.

But that happens a lot with professional reviewers. They're more likely to dismiss a game as untenable trash out of hand (someone in one of the film threads described it fairly well: professional reviewers play hundreds of games a month, and in that long slog are more likely to both zero in on things than frustrate them and dismiss positives else unless it's somehting that wows them), in contrast to user reviews which tend to give a more rounded description of a product's weaknesses and strengths.

Or in short, consumers have always had more of a tolerance for "this game is good/fun, but has a lot of jank" than reviewers do. From how it looks, this is turning into a situations where consumers in general are saying "this is a good game, and I'm having fun" and reviewers are saying "this is a bad game, look at this and this and this," and... yeah.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 14th 2022 at 1:34:20 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69049: Nov 14th 2022 at 1:35:43 AM

Yeah, 1.5/10 is a really harsh rating. I think even Sonic 06 is like a 2-2.5/10. A 1/10 should be saved for games where you genuinely can't think of any way they could be worse.

Negacube Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#69050: Nov 14th 2022 at 1:41:55 AM

Or in short, consumers have always had more of a tolerance for "this game is good/fun, but has a lot of jank" than reviewers do.

This comes up a lot with 3D Sonic games, and yet Sega hasn't really gotten the point. Maybe, just maybe, Sonic games wouldn't have such a bad reception if they weren't janky. But they've been janky for years, and Sega refuses (or is somehow incapable) to fix them because they're "good enough". "Good enough" isn't good enough. I shouldn't have to settle for mediocrity.


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