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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69001: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:32:32 PM

Wasn't the game written in English first, and then redubbed in Japan for theirs?

It does kind of fit, cause to be fair, Eggman is rather abusive in any media to his underlings, of which he creates. At most it's more consistent. Sonic X kept the same idea, and I don't remember him ever being a nice guy to his minions in general in any media or game beyond this one. At least outside of faking it.

Shadow?
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#69002: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:33:25 PM

Sonic Mania's hardware is actually on a similar level to Sonic Forces, it just uses HD Sprites instead of Models.

Watch Symphogear
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#69003: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:33:29 PM

[up][up]Yeah, I remember the whole scene with Sage's image song got ruined for me because I just imagined all the time Eggman was abusive towards his minions.

So I guess the JP version makes more sense to a certain degree?

[up] Yikes. So Classic Sonic being so heavy is baffling.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:34:09 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#69004: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:33:47 PM

Because chugging hardware at a game doesn't make it be better.

Mania was built on an engine meant to recreate the feel of the classic games, and had already been used for recreations of the originals. Forces was rushed and kinda got Classic thrown in trying to emulate Generations' acclaim.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69005: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:36:48 PM

I had a reply idea, but my old thoughts don't make sense anymore. [lol]

Yeah, that makes sense. Different engine concepts, etc.

Shadow?
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69006: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:37:49 PM

It might also be because Mike Pollock's Eggman has built up a popular persona at this point such that every English script - whether it's an English original or a dub - is going to incorporate it if the American team can help it. They're going to try to keep Pollock Eggman as that "complicated guy" who's surprisingly warm one second and then back to being ruthlessly evil the next, even if other regions don't.

It's like how like every main character in the Dragonball franchise has maintained personality quirks unique to the English dub - some branching out in surprisingly distinct directions - ever since Chris Sabat took over localization.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 12th 2022 at 8:38:46 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#69007: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:40:26 PM

I would argue that this final boss isn't Sonic's first dip into Bullet Hell:

     Not so random video 

I admit, it's not exactly the same, but it wouldn't surprise me if Dimps took some inspiration from the genre when they made this final level.

It may be that Sonic Team decided to dip their toes a little deeper this time, considering how much more....Bullet Hell-ish the final boss of Frontiers is.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Nov 12th 2022 at 8:44:19 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69008: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:41:32 PM

Might want to spoiler some of that. We tried to avoid the exact terms since it's a huge game spoiler.

...Not that you're wrong. But I view it as "almost every Super Sonic fight in 3D was basically a Genre Shift anyway."

Shadow?
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#69009: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:44:19 PM

I still love how the scene where Giganto throws Sonic's Coreography is near identical to how Wyzen from Asura's Wrath tries to do the same during his boss fight.

I wonder if someoen on Sonic Team was a fan, and added it in alongside all the other Anime homages in Frontiers.

Aside from Giganto being a blatant Homage to the various Eva Units in their Berserk States from Evangelion, alongside the Shin Godzilla homage with the Multi Atomic Breath cutting Lasers from its backside, Supreme outright uses the Particle Beam Gun from Evangelion that was used to Shoot down Leliel.

Plus, the Homage to Metal Gear Rising with Sonic using Knights own Blade to Cut him down.

Sonic Frontiers Embaracing Sonic's anime roots again fills me with joy, and I can't wait to see how they improve upon them in the future.

Watch Symphogear
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69010: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:45:17 PM

Sonic's anime roots

Oh crap.

I just realized this game could theoretically be considered an isekai.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69011: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:46:14 PM

I'd say if earlier Adventure-type games were shonen this one is more seinen—more philosophically mature with death having a presence in the entire story.

EDIT: Egg Memo 19 is utterly adorable.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:50:56 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#69012: Nov 12th 2022 at 9:22:01 PM

On the Frontiers final boss, I'm just saying, this REALLY isn't the first time 3D Sonic games have given you an entirely different gameplay style for the final boss that you have to get used to.

It's really also not a hard fight once you figure out the secret: While firing shots of one color, you're also immune to damage from that color, so that's how you're expected to survive the last bit of the fight.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#69013: Nov 12th 2022 at 9:23:28 PM

Given the Dub Personality Change with Eggman and Sage, if she continues to be used in future games, I wonder which version they'll follow.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69014: Nov 12th 2022 at 9:34:11 PM

[up][up]Super Sonic not being the same as the gameplay that came before it is a pretty common complaint with pretty much every Super Sonic boss.

A common bit of praise for Sonic Frontiers is that...this trend was averted for the major bosses.

So imagine being surprised that people didn't like it when they find out Sonic Team did it again for Frontier's final boss.

[up]They'll use the original version...

Edited by randomness4 on Nov 12th 2022 at 12:37:00 PM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69015: Nov 12th 2022 at 9:38:11 PM

Sega of Japan owns the IP, not Sega of America. They decide what gets used. Which means they could use either(though I hope they go with the nicer Eggman).

Shadow?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69016: Nov 12th 2022 at 9:45:35 PM

The Japanese version in this instance is a case of poor translation...there's literally no reason for them to use that.

Or for them to not use the version written by the person they hired to write the story.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69017: Nov 12th 2022 at 9:50:57 PM

Sure there is. Sega of Japan wants Eggman to be a bad boss. Thus, they stick with the poor translation because they consider it the more accurate version. First version doesn't win for companies. The way they want it portrayed does.

Look, I don't think they will either, but that's not really some surefire thing as you're making it. It may even continue the same way with the Japanese Eggman sticking with his bad boss tendencies while the US Eggman is a better guy if that's how they feel about it. There's more than one way they can go about it.

Shadow?
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#69018: Nov 13th 2022 at 3:19:28 AM

Hmm.

Well, Frontiers happened. Got blocked by a few folks on Twitter over it. Might as well save my thoughts for later.

However, I do feel a sense of indifference to it. Must be a form of fatigue.

Edited by Tomodachi on Nov 13th 2022 at 3:20:36 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#69019: Nov 13th 2022 at 4:24:12 AM

> I just realized this game could theoretically be considered an isekai.

just makes me think of that ad of the hedgehogs crossing the road and Sonic being attacked by Truck-kun..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#69020: Nov 13th 2022 at 5:01:54 AM

I found an interpretation of the symbol that appears through the Game, that may also give a different reading to the end of the Game.

    spoiler 
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_20221113_085429.jpg

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_20221113_085445.jpg

Maybe Eggman is eviler than I thought.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#69021: Nov 13th 2022 at 5:09:21 AM

[up]Interesting take, though it ignores the first ending song, specifically the lines note .

Edit: spolier formatting not working

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Nov 13th 2022 at 8:10:14 AM

My musician page
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#69022: Nov 13th 2022 at 5:36:13 AM

[up][up] The difference is that the Koco have been long dead for eons and have been trapped moments from their deaths mentally the entire time; Sage died five minutes ago and her dying wish was that she didn't have to die. I'm sure she'll be at least decently happy to be able to be back and continue protecting him, as well as meet her brothers.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#69023: Nov 13th 2022 at 8:25:28 AM

So, what are your guys’s favorite facts about the real life species counterparts of the Sonic characters?

Mine are:

  • Foxes prey upon Rabbits (think that one Sonic Short where Chris serves everyone dinner based on their species dietary recommendations)
  • Hedgehogs have a very gross diet
  • And of course my favorite is male Echidna anatomy. Nothing can top that.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#69024: Nov 13th 2022 at 9:19:27 AM

Male Echidna anatomy.

I got Sonic Frontiers, and much as I want to tempt fate and say it's amazing and poo poo all of the detractors, I will say this:

I am thoroughly enjoying it. The level design, the control, the music, the atmosphere, the character writing. It feels like a Sonic take on Nier Automata and Breath of the Wild.

I feel like it's distilled things I both wanted and already liked. It's pretty much the Flash video game I never thought would exist. Boosting is fun. I figured out the Infinite Boost by accident. Grabbing collectibles hasn't gotten old. I normally hate trying to speed run but I actually finished 1-2. The objectives don't feel too challenging.

I'm told the plot is lackluster but I like what I've seen from the first island at least. The progressions a little jarring but that's any open world game for me.

I get to have Modern Sonic with voice acting, occasional silence, moments of seriousness and humor. Even got a SATAM reference when you meet the Elder Koco.

The only complaint I have is getting the emeralds so early, but it feels like a deliberate Call-Back to how you could grab all of the Emeralds in the first level of Sonic 2.

I honestly think its the best Sonic game thus far. Certainly my favorite.

How's everyone else feeling about it?

Edited by FOFD on Nov 13th 2022 at 12:20:12 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#69025: Nov 13th 2022 at 9:21:55 AM

Like I said, I've been enjoying it but the controls and physics are janky at times.

Also wish the open world environments were more varied and had more Sonic vibes to them.

It's an 8-9 game for me, but the controls and physics as well as somewhat generic environments keep it from being a solid 9 IMO.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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