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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68976: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:10:53 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#68977: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:11:16 PM

Moving on, you think a potential sequel could use more varied settings?

I'd love to see a Casino Nights Zone/Stardust Speedway zone in this style of gameplay.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68978: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:12:04 PM

If I'm telling you I didn't like something and your response is trying to justify it based on why you liked it personally, what other response were you expecting?

An acceptance that it's a difference of opinion?

I understand that both of you are frustrated, but that shot to firing on all cylinders really quick.

Moving on, you think a potential sequel could use more varied settings?

I really hope so. Imo, the big fun of making an open world game in a series that isn't usually open world is the ability to see old locations in an entirely new way.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 12th 2022 at 8:13:05 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68979: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:12:18 PM

My gut tells me they're gonna reuse as much as possible from this game and Forces if the later areas are any indication.

[up] Hence the "good for you". I understand that probably sounds very aggressive but I also wasn't disagreeing with them either.

If they liked it, that's fine. I didn't, I don't need justifications for why they liked it or why its ok.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:14:33 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#68980: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:12:30 PM

I wish the Egg Memos were integrated more naturally into the game, as that's where the bulk of Eggman bonding with Sage is.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:12:36 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#68981: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:12:43 PM

[up][up] Giving my perspective on a something I like wasn't making you agree with me.

Agreeing to disagreeing is the best route for this right now. Just don't be an ass about it, is all.

@Red Hunter: I could see a sequel adding a lot more varied settings, maybe more varied islands.

I'd love to explore Angel Island like this too, actually.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:13:54 AM

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#68982: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:13:25 PM

[up][up][up]

I wonder if Sonic Team has issues with the level design team, given how Forces was given to one guy who was inexperienced and that's how we ended up with the short levels.

[up][up] Yeah I only found out Big's fishing game was in when I got to the last island.

So I just listened to the memos in You Tube.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:14:18 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#68983: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:15:09 PM

I would unironically want Big's Fishing game to be a seperate game on its own.

It sounds fun.

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#68984: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:16:57 PM

So apparently the Playstation 4 version of Frontiers is weaker FPS, like the Switch is? At least that's what I've heard. Is that correct?

Shadow?
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#68985: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:17:29 PM

Yeah out of all the Islands so far, I think the third one is my favorite. Like it's not a generic field or desert area, and it has the most platforming sections not in Cyberspace.

Like a Frontiers game with more varied open world settings would be great. I personally think a more urban area would be great.

Hell, Sonic Unleashed was great at the whole world tour vibe. I think Frontiers 2 should try to capture that.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68986: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:17:42 PM

Ok, I don't wanna get suspended again so I'll just drop it.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:19:52 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68987: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:19:26 PM

I think they front loaded their money to a degree. A lot of budget and attention went into the first few worlds, not to mention the bosses and so on. So you can practically see the meeting where they told the level designers "you can do whatever interesting things you want with cyberspace, as long as they can be made with reused assets."

Tbh, I'd be down with more reused assets in some areas if it meant other areas were interesting locations. But who knows, if this game continues to be a success the sequel may well have a bigger budget (and more more tight, concise development schedule).

—-

Anywho, confession time. I know it's blasphemy, but...

I rather like the cyberspace levels.

They really started with their worst foot forward with those: the ones in World 1 are all either bland or frustrating, so it's no wonder that most previews reported back that it was a poor part of the game. So O was surprised to find that starting from World 2 the cyberspace levels have been consistently fire.

They're reminding me of the additional "acts" in Unleashed and Generations: challenge levels that each focus on different skills, part of game progression.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 12th 2022 at 8:20:35 AM

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#68988: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:20:28 PM

[up][up]I don't know, a change to a Bullet Hell section causing the ENTIRE GAME to lose good will seems kinda like an overraction to me.

Thats just my perspective.

But if you didn't like it, thats fine. Making passive agressive remarks to the devs isn't, though.

[up] Games frontloading their money to the start and middle of their games is common.

Elden Ring, for insance, has gotten criticism in recent months after release of excessive resuing of boss fights, including in duos.

Sonic Frontiers reusing assets for its endgame feels similar.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:22:45 AM

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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68989: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:20:36 PM

Cyberspace is bad...but I still kind of like it. They're short and kind of fun to time attack.

Really wish they controlled better.

[up] I'm not really too concerned with the personal feelings of the devs.

I gotta judge the product they gave me.

And yes, cuz I was already getting burned out of the game before I got to the final boss. So its kind of a straw that broke the camel's back scenario.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:23:27 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#68990: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:21:02 PM

I don't hate the Cyberlevels personally.

I just wish Sonic controlled better there, but they have their moments of fun.

[up] Right? Sonic team has issues with Sonic feeling so heavy lately in 2D.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:21:42 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68991: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:22:28 PM

Lately?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#68992: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:24:20 PM

As in, Devs that basically forced Sega to give them an extra year to work on the game?

Judging the games quality is one thing, but I don't think its kosher to make snide remarks at them for doing their job in the time constraints they're often given. Sonic Team itself is really small for a AAA studio too, at only 60 devs overall.

If Sega allowed them to expand a bit, to at least 100, I could see some sort of difference in the final product.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:25:27 AM

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#68993: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:24:25 PM

[up][up]Sonic Unleashed to Lost World at least didn't make Sonic feel like he's got cement shoes.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:24:47 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#68994: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:25:53 PM

And then Forces happened, and we all know how that ended up....

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68995: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:27:17 PM

Sonic either controls like a brick or controls like butter.

Clearly, we need a game where he does both for maximum frustration.

In this game, the big problem imo here is that Sonic doesn't transition from move to move fluidly enough. He's just... stiff. And it means sometimes you don't feel in control of him enough.

It makes the cyberspace levels actually meant to be challenging (or really any situation that calls upon the player to make a lot of precious movements quickly) end up just needlessly frustrating. Like, the World 3 level meant to be a harder version of Sonic Generations' Sky Sanctuary level with a strict time limit might be one of my favorites so far, but having to wrestle Sonic to move right after boosting or grinding etc undercuts the fun.

I will say though, the faster you buff Sonic's speed, the more insane his physics get in a way that segues straight into entertaining nonsense. I'm fully expecting someone to come out with a "how max speed breaks the game" video at some point.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 12th 2022 at 8:28:40 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#68996: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:27:50 PM

[up][up]Yeah Classic Sonic in particular is really heavy and his levels were made worse because of that.

Has anyone done an analysis on this sort of thing?

Because Classic Sonic in Forces is just such a jarring change from Mania.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:28:45 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#68997: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:27:51 PM

Yup. I blame Classic Sonic for being poorly shoehorned in as well. Not that it'd have mattered if it was Tails instead, since the gameplay they did for the 2D platforming still was fairly bad.

Speaking of the Phantom Ruby, the idea of it returning to further be used isn't a bad idea at all. Especially if it creates new villains while allowing Eggman to be closer to later works, with more of a humanity to him(something they clearly... didn't want in Japan?).

[up] Aren't the developers for each game entirely different?

Edited by Irene on Nov 12th 2022 at 10:30:17 AM

Shadow?
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#68998: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:29:44 PM

It's funny because Japan Eggman is a cheerful happy guy in classic art.

While American Robotnik is constantly snarling and looks way more evil.

I'm actually curious what Eggman's lines in JP is to Sage. It's pretty wild to imagine Eggman is more abusive to her in JP while he's more of a dad to her in ENG.

I think it might actually explain some things. Like why Sage constantly wants Eggman's approval.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:30:43 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#68999: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:30:32 PM

Calling it now, The End will use the Phantom Ruby to re-emerge and use Infinite as a Puppet. The irony wouldn't be lost on me. [lol]

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#69000: Nov 12th 2022 at 8:31:35 PM

Regarding different dev teams in Forces and Mania, yeah.

How the hell does Classic Sonic in Mania control far better in a retro game than in a game with supposedly superior hardware? What did the devs in Forces do to make Classic so heavy?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 12th 2022 at 11:31:56 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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