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TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#68076: Oct 29th 2022 at 3:43:35 PM

[up][up][up] Uh huh, yeah, sure he isn't in Frontiers. They can say that all they want.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#68077: Oct 29th 2022 at 3:55:50 PM

My whole problem with the whole “separate worlds” thing that they were using since SA 1 is that Angel Island is a location in that game, and of course Angel Island was in the Classic games.

Like it really wasn’t communicated well in the games.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#68078: Oct 29th 2022 at 4:02:42 PM

I think either direction is going into induce fridge logic by a segment of the audience. Two worlds is going to have people question the geography that was presented in the Adventure era and if its one world, other people will wonder how the planet that had entirely different sentient species on it still largely ended up so similar to what we have in real life.

One world is probably just easier to go with given the tastes of the audience, but there's coherence problems either way.

Edited by BorneAgain on Oct 29th 2022 at 7:05:21 AM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#68079: Oct 29th 2022 at 4:18:54 PM

Babe, it's time for a new Pariah video.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68080: Oct 29th 2022 at 4:40:20 PM

I always liked the Sonic Rush stories. They basically accomplish what the Pontaff games failed at, being simple character driven stories. No forced jokes or one-dimensional characterizations. The stakes are just high enough to be acceptable without being too melodramatic and over the top lke the Adventure era games.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Oct 29th 2022 at 7:43:17 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#68081: Oct 29th 2022 at 4:48:52 PM

[up][up][up] There’s a Fridge Brilliance to the “Islands vs Mainland” explanation.

If you study ecology, you will find that islands tend to favor smaller body size compared to mainland species. Given that anthros are smaller than people….

And now a theory that explains Forces story and how Eggman lost everything in a mere hours.

wild mass guess The Resistance was an unwitting distraction by GUN wild mass guess

Shadow’s main mission was to find intel on Sonic’s whereabouts. Rouge was GUN’s plant in the Resistance and was in contact with Shadow the whole time. This is why Shadow rushed to Sonic’s aid so quickly after the rescue op.

With Sonic secure, GUN’s Batman Gambit can begin in earnest. They knew they could bait Eggman into a Angler Fish ploy, expecting him to tunnel vision on Sonic. Using the “lure” (lures are intended to survive rather than being bait) to distract Eggman’s attention, GUN launched a MASSIVE global counter attack. Much of their forces barring guerrila forces were in underground military bases waiting for Eggman to slip up.

Edited by magnum12 on Oct 29th 2022 at 5:02:27 AM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#68082: Oct 29th 2022 at 5:00:40 PM

[up][up]

Yeah, Rush is essentially what Pontac stories (Colors, Lost World and Generations) wanted to be. It is odd, however, because Rush stories and Battle depended on a new character to work with.

Colors new character was Yacker and he was a non-entity, and Lost World new characters were the Deadly Six who are as one dimensional as Eggman Nega and Whisker, but less amusing depending on who you ask.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#68083: Oct 29th 2022 at 5:33:37 PM

Rush did interesting things storywise besides the villains, whereas the Deadly Six were literally the closest thing their game's story had to 'interesting'

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68084: Oct 29th 2022 at 5:48:51 PM

Yea, that's a good point actually. There's no "new" characters to explore in the Pontaff games.

Yacker isn't a character, and the Deadly Six suck. The closest thing to a new character in their games were Classic Sonic...who is mute. And the Avatar, who is also mute.

There's Infinite but like the Deadly Six, we don't know shit about him.

Huh...never realized that.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#68085: Oct 29th 2022 at 5:59:31 PM

I'm left to wonder if lack of new characters (particular playable protagonists) was a mere coincidence or the result of a directive. Given the increasing backlash against the extended cast circa 06, reducing fresh faces down to sidekicks (Chip and Yacker) or glorified gameplay functions (Buddy) might have been the resulting over-correction.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68086: Oct 29th 2022 at 6:06:08 PM

Possibly. Its probably why so many fans are still more accepting of the earlier games despite their own problems.

You're getting a new protagonist per game, so you have that sense of "new" and freshness.

Whereas the Pontaff games were just really stagnant; no new characters meant they had to rely on the personalities of the existing cast present, which were just Sonic, Tails, and Eggman for the most part.

And uh...well....your YMMV on how well those games portrayed those characters lol.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68087: Oct 29th 2022 at 6:12:40 PM

It's the difference between having new characters that you can play as and tell a story around and new characters that are just the main villain. You can tell a good story with the same cast and a new villain, they just hadn't figured it out.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68088: Oct 29th 2022 at 6:31:00 PM

Just goes to show that maybe they weren't the right ones to work on the games.

Doesn't justify how they got treated mind you, but I understand it.

Fans can be very..."passionate" when they feel like you're assassinating their favorite characters.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
mstorzil Crimson Helios Since: Nov, 2019
Crimson Helios
#68089: Oct 29th 2022 at 6:51:34 PM

Not gonna lie, even after watching the cutscenes on Youtube I'm still not very fond of Marine. I honestly find her to be a worse Charmy Bee.

No rain could douse the flames that burn within me!
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#68091: Oct 29th 2022 at 7:04:47 PM

I never thought Marine and Charmy were particularly similar.

I don't dislike Marine myself, but I can imagine why a lot of people find her annoying. She's intentionally a bit annoying and has a heavily telegraphed character arc, but her character development doesn't come until the very end of the game.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68092: Oct 29th 2022 at 7:14:02 PM

...That's literally how character development works...

I love Marine. She breaks the mold of Sonic characters by not being a super hypercompetent badass. She sucks, because she's a kid who doesn't know any better and has to learn to grow up and resolves to do so. Its not ground breaking or anything, but it's effective in its simplicity. It helps that she doesn't have voice acting, so you can't really hear how annoying she'd probably be.

And really, she's not like any other Sonic character as opposed to say, introducing another no-nonsense foil for Sonic, which had been done four times up to that point.

So yea, Marine's good and the fact we haven't seen her again is a crime.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68093: Oct 29th 2022 at 7:26:38 PM

More or less gonna echo what everyone says here.

I can see why people would find Marine annoying, but [up] kinda puts it in perspective.

I would also like to see her again in the games, and also like to see how far she's come. We've seen her in some comics from Archie (both pre and post Genesis Wave) but she was kinda still treated as an annoying kid in that (though that Pic of Shadow being pissed at her is gold) and only had a very brief appearance recently in the 2022 Sonic Annual for IDW.

But hopefully, when she does show up, it'll make sense, and the writers will find a way to keep her as herself without making her so annoying that most fans want to smash her face.

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68094: Oct 29th 2022 at 7:32:49 PM

She's a "worse" Charmy Bee because she's meant to actually develop as a character...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#68095: Oct 29th 2022 at 7:35:54 PM

I understand the intended character arc they're sending Marine through, but I think they just overtuned Marine being annoying. Quite literally every cutscene features her either being an active nuisance or otherwise distracting from the conversation.

And when someone above said her character arc only completed at the end of the game, they mean literally the very, very end, after the final boss. She doesn't get a moment to SHOW that she's taken it to heart and became more responsible.

The part about her proving that she CAN be useful is also incredibly unearned considering it involves giving her a brand new power out of the blue (with literally no foreshadowing and no explanation after the fact) that saved the day, which has the effect of cheapening her arc when it feels like the only way she can be useful is writer bullshit.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#68096: Oct 29th 2022 at 7:38:29 PM

If I may add my two cents here.

The reason Marine ended up more annoying than Charmy, is that Charmy was always intended to be comic relief and he has two other characters to bounce off for his humor. If we judge Charmy by Heroes alone, yeah he is annoying, but by using Sonic X and other games, he comes off as quite an amusing little fella. It helps the recent comics have focused on Vector and Espio being his caretakers for some wholesome material.

Marine, besides not being given the opportunity to show off again, only has one game to properly show her personality - and she is a brat who annoys the other three heroes. That being said, Archie did good with her for some good comedy moments with Shadow.

[up][up][up] The Avatar may be mute, but is funny he is the best written character of the Pontac written games due to having a thematic character arc. Infinite may be the worst character ever created by Sonic Team, but they at least bothered to make him a thematic foil to the Avatar.

Edited by Tomodachi on Oct 29th 2022 at 7:48:30 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#68097: Oct 29th 2022 at 8:49:29 PM

[up]Eh….I’d say Elise is way worse than Infinite.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
Negacube Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#68098: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:14:47 PM

Both are equally bad, but in opposite ways. Elise was written to be as sympathetic as possible, but she ended up being a Damsel Scrappy with a notorious No Yay moment. Infinite was written to be as unsympathetic as possible, but he ended up being a Memetic Loser with lousy boss fights. I vastly prefer Infinite because I like Hate Sink villains that I can beat up for the Catharsis Factor, but from an objective standpoint he's too stupid to be a meaningful threat without Eggman's backing.

Edited by Negacube on Oct 29th 2022 at 12:16:24 PM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68099: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:15:52 PM

Elise wins.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#68100: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:20:26 PM

[up][up] The fact that Infinite sounds like Illidan Stormrage while saying his iconic line of “I AM NOT WEAK!” puts damper on him too and makes illidan seem whiny.

What a waste of such a talented VA.


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