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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68026: Oct 28th 2022 at 6:40:59 PM

[up][up][up] Yea, but then that goes back to my point "Why would Shadow willingly put up with people that do not trust him?"

He keeps his distance from Sonic's gang, and they're at least on good enough terms to have the other's back when push comes to shove, but he willingly stays with a group that can't trust him not to go rogue?

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Oct 28th 2022 at 9:42:18 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#68027: Oct 28th 2022 at 6:45:42 PM

Who says GUN doesn't trust Shadow? The random agents you meet in 06 seem to like him at least.

You brought up that Archie storyline, but that's a non-canon comic, and it just sounds like bad writing on the writer's part to try and force some extra "drama" into that storyline.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68028: Oct 28th 2022 at 6:54:42 PM

Well Archie is what we were talking about soooo...

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#68029: Oct 28th 2022 at 6:59:13 PM

I don't know enough about the Comic storyline, to be fair. Namely, what events are even changed from the Adventure 2, Heroes, and Shadow arcs? If I understand right, you're talking about the 06 arc? ...And maybe Sonic Battle, Advance 1-3, and Rush 1 and 2, if they're part of the same set of storylines within the comic.

Edited by Irene on Oct 28th 2022 at 9:00:45 AM

Shadow?
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68030: Oct 28th 2022 at 7:04:44 PM

In the storyline I'm talking about, it takes place in a world where all of those events did indeed happen as they did.

So that story arc under the assumption that you've played all of the games dealing with Shadow's canon story arc.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Oct 28th 2022 at 10:04:56 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#68031: Oct 28th 2022 at 7:07:54 PM

Shadow's entire story in 06 is about how he's seeking to help humanity despite having like, exactly 2 people trust him (Rouge and Omega).

Plus while GUN was only said to be involved via Tails Tube, Shadow in Forces was working for some organisation in that game which Occam's Razor suggests to be GUN.

Edited by Numbuh1234 on Oct 29th 2022 at 1:11:20 AM

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#68032: Oct 28th 2022 at 7:09:10 PM

Ah, then what I said earlier is the best I can think of. Shadow is a very violent individual and all. And part of a race that nearly destroyed the planet. Some hesitation is justified alone.

As for Shadow, he also just let go of his past, but saving the world is still part of his main motivation for helping, and G.U.N. at that point probably just aligns right with his overall views. It's usually why he teams up with anyone at all, cause it aligns with his current views. He's gotta trust someone to get things done, and both Eggman and Rouge were at one point untrustworthy too. He can't get anywhere without taking a risk. Also, keep in mind Eggman saved his life, and Rouge basically is the only reason(during Heroes) he wasn't in a death fight with Omega. So overall, these risks seem to have better outcomes for him. It was probably worth taking in that case.

They may never properly explain why he'd say yes, though. But that's just my guess.

Shadow?
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#68033: Oct 28th 2022 at 7:12:35 PM

Eggman also immediately made an army of clones out of him, and both Metal Sonic and Eggman independently decided to try and convince him that he was also one of these clones.

So you know, I think it's fair to assume that Eggman's decision to save Shadow wasn't done in good faith.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68034: Oct 28th 2022 at 7:21:42 PM

Sonic writing doesn't really have a lot of forethought about this stuff and I don't think Sega ever thought that far...or ever considered the implications.

Well, not like GUN shows up much anyway for it to be an issue; I just always thought it was weird how nobody ever questioned it and just readily accepted Shadow joining GUN as a logical progression of the character despite the holes in logic.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#68035: Oct 28th 2022 at 7:36:29 PM

Though Sonic X has it far more good faith, as there's no army thing. He just saves Shadow. The motivations aren't there, however, Shadow is at least part of his extended family, and he has more sentimental values overall in that show.

It's a weird one. In Heroes, he isn't an actual villain in the game. He's an ally through and through. Shadow's game doesn't explain it all either, at worst he still is interested in taking over the world, but they don't actually connect it together directly. Especially since there's no hint he knew of Black Doom till his official in-game appearance. So it may be a case of them making a sequel but simply forgetting some details. That, and to be fair, it's worth noting not every possible path actually makes coherent sense, but there's over 300. There's bound to be writing mixups from time to time, heh.

Shadow?
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#68036: Oct 28th 2022 at 8:30:02 PM

A lot of thoughts.

If IDW has taught me anything with the mandates and retroactively looking back on the character story, My take is the following: Shadow is a free spirit like Sonic, it doesnt matter who is wrong le right, he will do what he feels is correct to him. Unfortunately, Shadow is more serious about it.

He will team up with anyone who aligns with his current objetive, be GUN or Eggman, or Sonic. But make no mistake: Shadow is not loyal to anyone, and despite being a protector of Earth, his hatred of humanity never left.

Regarding the goverment in Sonic world: it's gray. Surprisingly Sonic as a series doesnt ask for the characters to be loyal to any nation; on the contrary. The United Nations are never shown in an evil light, nor a purely altruistic light besides the president. And the only folks who work with GUN are shady people to begin with: Rouge, and for a while, Shadow and Omega. You will find the Sonic franchise being more idealistic with monarchies than democratic goverments.

Edited by Tomodachi on Oct 28th 2022 at 8:31:32 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#68037: Oct 28th 2022 at 8:37:14 PM

between that and the fact that the main villain is usually a mad scientist associated with tech. It drolly wouldn't be farfetched to assume Sonic has some romantic leanings.

isbillyhere Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#68039: Oct 29th 2022 at 2:43:30 AM

His bed is in ruins.

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#68040: Oct 29th 2022 at 2:49:03 AM

I thought it was about fighting and that his head was in ruins. tongue

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#68041: Oct 29th 2022 at 2:57:13 AM

As per why Shadow works with GUN (not for).

This is deduction, but I suspect Shadow connected the dots correctly.

Maria’s death was due to humanity ie GUN flipping out in fear/panic -> Black Doom was the root cause of said flip out -> ergo Black Doom is the root cause of Maria’s death.

I’d say the relationship is like Batman and Gotham PD. Independant ally/operative. Like Gotham PD, GUN can be assumed to be at least in the process of cleaning up their act within those 50 years. The President and Commander (trauma issues asides) are good people and trust worthy on a personal level. The President and Commander being the Gordon part of the allegory.

Continung the “Multiple Acts Theory” comment.

GUN wins battle of Central City, but the city takes significant damage, explaining the President and Commander’s posistion in Last Way.

Edited by magnum12 on Oct 29th 2022 at 2:59:36 AM

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68042: Oct 29th 2022 at 3:40:33 AM

his hatred of humanity never left

I mean, the hatred based on Gerald's manipulation, which goes utterly against Maria's dying words? Yeah, that's something I don't really see Shadow embracing.

He doesn't like people alright. But the "pathetic humans" is pretty much a 2005 game thing. Which means it is inconsistently getting pushed because reasons.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#68043: Oct 29th 2022 at 4:50:44 AM

Sega Sammy reveals in their latest earnings the series has sold 1.5 billion copies (including full priced and free to play).

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68044: Oct 29th 2022 at 6:38:59 AM

[up][up] Its a stretch, but I personally feel like Shadow was too angry at what happened and went along with Gerald's plan and tried to justify it that it was what Maria wanted.

When he calmed down and cleared his head, Shadow decided that while he's still a misanthrope, he should still try to do good, if only for Maria or its own sake.

Textbook Knight in Sour Armor.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Oct 29th 2022 at 9:39:08 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#68045: Oct 29th 2022 at 6:45:53 AM

[up] Pretty much. The official word is that, in his dislikes in the Sonic Channel site, "humanity" is still there.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#68047: Oct 29th 2022 at 7:17:40 AM

The Sonic series being skeptical of government makes sense with the focus on the main character's freedom and detachment. Sonic is definitely on the "Romantic" end of Romanticism Versus Enlightenment.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#68048: Oct 29th 2022 at 8:30:32 AM

2005 Shadow was also an amnesiac whose only real memory of humanity is a little girl getting shot and a robot masquerading as a genius scientist who claimed that he isn't real.

When you're already a pretty negative person and those are the ONLY things you can remember, I wouldn't be surprised about not liking humanity at that point.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68049: Oct 29th 2022 at 8:45:49 AM

Nobody likes humanity. Not even humanity.

Shadow ain't unique in 2005.

I'd argue someone who doesn't fall into misanthropy is always more unique than someone who does, even if you can understand why they would hate people.

One Strip! One Strip!
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#68050: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:03:09 AM

It should be the other way around. That's the easiest way to tell someone doesn't have the strongest will nor heart.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."

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