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MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#67626: Oct 12th 2022 at 5:22:03 PM

Thought that too can be owed to years of experience and creativity

diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#67627: Oct 12th 2022 at 5:31:21 PM

My favorite character in Sonic Battle was Tails. I liked his Arm Cannon and Punching Glove.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67628: Oct 12th 2022 at 7:17:58 PM

Two for one special from Pariah baby.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#67629: Oct 12th 2022 at 9:05:11 PM

I appreciate how blunt he is: the series is already a mess with continuity, so he just accepts Chronicles ideas cool despite the game being non-canon.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#67630: Oct 12th 2022 at 11:58:16 PM

....Basic? Have you see what The Flash has done with Super Speed?

I believe they are referring to Sonic's specific form of super speed, not the Flash's.

Also, when has Sonic ever gone intangible?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67631: Oct 13th 2022 at 2:31:35 AM

Archie.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
ImmaLelouch (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#67632: Oct 13th 2022 at 9:22:34 AM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#67633: Oct 13th 2022 at 9:23:31 AM

Here's the combat overview trailer

My musician page
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#67634: Oct 13th 2022 at 11:31:19 AM

So this is something I said on Twitter in regards to why Frontiers is taking the direction it is:

This is a game that I’m most likely gonna get anyways but I don’t know if the main core gameplay loop is gonna be appealing to me. It seems like Sonic’s core design in this game is trying to appeal to the mainstream audience.

And the core design of most Sonic games is only able to appeal to those like us who are willing to replay the games over and over again to become better at them.

And that design isn’t gonna appeal to a lot of modern gamers because of the syntax of game design being different in 2022 than it was in 1991.

In addition to the major console games not having reviewed well after 2001. This is purely because of Sega leaving the hardware business and the critics reviewing games for the big three not being attuned well to the arcade design mentality Sega and especially Sonic have.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#67635: Oct 13th 2022 at 11:38:04 AM

I feel like the reception to Frontiers is going to be very split, just based on how different the game is in style and gameplay loop. My prediction:

  • People who aren't really fans of Sonic or who are just casual fans are going to love the game, praising it as the best 3D Sonic game ever.

  • Hardcore Sonic fans are going to hate the game, saying it deviated too much from the "Sonic formula" and that it's not even a Sonic game anymore.

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#67636: Oct 13th 2022 at 11:39:23 AM

I'd say that the term "hardcore" would be even split in that regard between those who accept the change because it brings more variety for the franchise and those who don't like you said.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#67637: Oct 13th 2022 at 11:40:58 AM

In addition to the major console games not having reviewed well after 2001. This is purely because of Sega leaving the hardware business and the critics reviewing games for the big three not being attuned well to the arcade design mentality Sega and especially Sonic have.
No, it's because most of those games are heavily controversial and meandering in quality. Noticeably the two games that are the exception to your statement, Colors and Generations, are the ones that the general populace considers good.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#67638: Oct 13th 2022 at 11:45:39 AM

I had a dream where Nack, Ray, and Knuckles were added to a remake of Sonic Spinball as playable. And it had a really deep storyline for some reason.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#67639: Oct 13th 2022 at 12:13:36 PM

[up]*6 Yay, more combat spotlights.

Like, don’t get me wrong. It looks amazing. I get why they’re proud of it. But, we really need to see more of the game outside of that.

People have been talking on here about how the gameplay doesn’t quite feel like Sonic, and I think part of that feeling is that we haven’t really gotten to see much of it. The demo was just part of one area, and there isn’t much more to look at.

Are there going to be places and ways the game will let the player revel in Sonic’s speed, without being setpieces? Is that just going to be limited to the flashback levels? Also, there’s placement puzzles and such, but are we going to see fun things with momentum? How much is the player going to be able to cut loose and explore the open landscape should they not want to do a fight or a puzzle right now - a lot, or is just going to be “go from encounter to encounter” in design?

We have little info for how the game is meant to feel outside of combat and puzzle encounters, so the answer for all of that is “I dunno.” But hey, here’s the third trailer/info release in a row making sure we know that Sonic can do a ki attack now. Neat.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 13th 2022 at 12:15:36 PM

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#67640: Oct 13th 2022 at 12:16:21 PM

[up][up][up]I’m also talking about how the port of SA 2 reviewed worse than the Dreamcast version, in part because of it coming out after big hits that pushed the medium forward (Halo, MGS 2, and GTA III). Yes the meandering quality is a thing, but SA 2 is overall considered to be good. Yes it’s divisive but leans positive.

But even Colors and Generations weren’t getting higher than 8/10 scores. It says something when Mania is the highest rated game since 2001.

But the point still stands that the core design of Sonic isn’t gonna appeal to a lot of modern gamers, regardless of quality.

Edited by powerpuffbats on Oct 13th 2022 at 2:16:40 PM

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#67641: Oct 13th 2022 at 12:16:49 PM

We didn't have enough footage of how the combat wouldn't be repetitive...

So despite the amount of it there was, this is still necessary.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#67642: Oct 13th 2022 at 12:45:08 PM

Are people a fan of Pariah695 here? I happened to have his sonic videos recommended to me a few months ago but I found his opinions on the more mediocre titles very interesting for how effortlessly positive they were.

Edited by VeryMelon on Oct 13th 2022 at 3:45:23 PM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#67643: Oct 13th 2022 at 12:46:03 PM

[up]His videos have been posted here pretty frequently.

My musician page
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67644: Oct 13th 2022 at 1:10:25 PM

[up][up] I posted one last night even. I find his opinions refreshing.

@Known Unknown: I'm fairly certain we've basically seen the entire gameplay loop and what it has to offer.

So fans looking for a more "traditional" Sonic gameplay will just have to settle for the Cyberspace levels. The open world and combat are the main draws here and that's been very apparent for a long time.

So if anything you've seen from Frontiers hasn't hooked you yet, then I doubt anything besides the story will hook you.

For my part...eh. I don't think this game will be bad by any means, but its definitely not what I want from my Sonic games lol. Imma still get it cuz it doesn't bore me at least but man, Sega really just do not want to make a 3D platformer lol.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#67645: Oct 13th 2022 at 1:29:32 PM

I'm very curious if the overworld is actually going to have different biomes that look distinct from each other. You'd think that would be a given but...

ImmaLelouch (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#67646: Oct 13th 2022 at 3:30:18 PM

I don't understand why my post got thumped when it came first. :( Oh well. Anyway, I like how Sonic's gotten stronger over the years.

Edited by ImmaLelouch on Oct 13th 2022 at 6:42:21 AM

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#67647: Oct 13th 2022 at 3:39:05 PM

Don't share videos without commenting. It's to avoid spam.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#67649: Oct 13th 2022 at 4:05:52 PM

Frontiers is an interesting beast at this point because its clearly appealing to Adventure era fans in seemingly every sense except gameplay. A more somber tone, a seemingly serious story, a soundtrack very much calling back to the style of the aughts, and so on. That's why the gameplay loop will be an interesting test. While I've seen many 2000s era fans willing to be open minded about that (see the embracing of many of the series experiments circa 1998-2008), stuff like the open world and combat emphasis may or may not be too much for fans otherwise enthusiastic about the rest of the game.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#67650: Oct 13th 2022 at 4:21:44 PM

I'm fairly certain we've basically seen the entire gameplay loop and what it has to offer.

So fans looking for a more "traditional" Sonic gameplay will just have to settle for the Cyberspace levels.

I'm not sure you read me correctly, as that's... not at all what I said. I didn't say anything about the game having traditional Sonic game design.

I said "is the traversal of this game going to capture speed or momentum" (and, after all, it's not like the game has to play like a traditional Sonic game to feel fast), and "are the puzzles in this game going to offer a wider range of options than what we've seen," and "is exploration of the game world going to be encouraged in the hub level design, versus popping from objective to objective."

These are all important questions about the traversal of the game that we certainly haven't seen much information about yet, no.

We've only really seen that in bits of a demo that only gave us part of the introductory area of the game with only the basic stuff included, designed by nature to be small but simplistic sampling. We don't know what the level design of the hubs past the first world look like (or even what more we can expect out of the first world), and we've barely gotten any information about what it looks or feels like to just... travel that world in itself.

In an open world game, traversal is extremely important. How traversal functions, what engaging with the game world feels like, and how the game feels unique in the way the player can move within is arguably way more important to whether people are going to enjoy the overall experience, because it's 80% of the game.

You're going to have a lot of combat, but most of the time you're going to be going from Point A to Point B. So it better be fun. And if this game is going to stand out in a market where you can pick up a game an awful lot like this for free, it better feel unique. So we need to know what Sonic's take on the open world exploration adventure genre brings to the table. For the most part, the answer Sonic Team has given to that has been "uhh... well, here's more combat."

But - like - we already know the combat looks good. How about some other stuff?

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 13th 2022 at 4:39:42 AM


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