Not really. They're from the exact same world and do the same things and follow the same rules. He's also not all that cartoony, introduced with a much more realistic model in comparison. He was always dark.
He didn't start off with a chibi/kid-like aesthetic like Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, Amy, and some others did. He started off in a game that also starred a Vamp who is a Bat, Eggman easily willing to cause mass destruction, Gerald's original attempt at genocide of an entire planet(till more information was given), a clearly defined death, and that's even ignoring the previous game having a God who was causing mass city-wide destruction(all onscreen). It's already a dark age. The second guns were used in that game(and Shadow is also the game after Gamma is pretty clearly using bullet-like attacks, not simply lasers), that kind of excuse went out the window.
It was already dark and the guns didn't change a thing. Stuff like blood and swearing easily were a big deal. Guns? Meh, been there, done that.
Edited by Irene on Sep 19th 2022 at 7:48:50 AM
Shadow?Basically lets be real, Trunks stomps Base Silver. I don't have the energy for considering power scaling but Silver's biggest feats are keeping up with Infinite, who's attacks can cause physical damage and make a sun, creator an entire meteor, and was 33% responsible for defeating the sun good.
Trunks on the other has cut a cyborg super alien emperor into two, damaged a guy who could blow up the planet, and sliced an semi-immortal into two.
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Eh, different strokes for different folks. Too much of design disconnect for me not not view certain scenes as a touch absurd, which on top of the... hit and miss writing makes the whole narrative more weird than dramatic.
A pity too, given there are certain concepts of the game (multiple paths, different endings) which would be nice to see come back.
Edited by BorneAgain on Sep 19th 2022 at 8:51:59 AM
Fair enough. But Shadow hasn't used firearms in combat since '06. Even in works where he's directly affiliated with G.U.N. (Chronicles, post-reboot Archie) and/or has access to Wispons (Forces, IDW), he fights unarmed with the occasional Chaos attack for good measure. Sometimes he would genuinely be better off shooting (case in point: IDW #19), but he doesn't use them. Taking all that into account, Shadow's usage of firearms in his own games and '06 look more like anomalies.
Edited by Negacube on Sep 19th 2022 at 9:00:33 AM
The scenes were kind of absurd due to pointless swearing, over the top acting that made Heroes cringe, and Shadow having to have a memory plot thanks to his sudden revival in Heroes. The guns didn't really make a difference in that either way.
Eggman using a gun is absurd... if he wasn't already destroying the military bases with weapons, wasn't already more than willing to destroy the world multiple times before, set up a missile in Station Square a year prior that would kill many, reluctantly decided to help save the world twice over(and only didn't want to outright destroy it, just conquer it, but is more than willing to kill others to do so anyway).
Yeah, it's not weird at all for him to do this. If anything, they captured who he is. He's still an evil person who has absolutely no problem hurting or killing others to get what he wants. He just doesn't want the entire world gone, as he has some standards. Shadow was not so good of a person from the start, as he originally was going with Gerald's plan to destroy the entire world, killing billions. Why would he remotely care if he picked up a lethal weapon, nor why would Eggman?
It's not jarring because the characters were already built in mind by that point to be not against using lethal force. Sonic on the other hand is. It even took a while for Eggman to be returned to his sillier personality, but he's given a nicer personality in the Adventure 2 dub. His response to Sonic dying in the original Japanese? Laugh out loud. He only shows respect in the dub, showing just how much he was willing to kill at that point. Threatening Amy's life is nothing new to the guy anyway. Sonic X actually went out of the way(at least in the dub?) to soften him a bit. Which is funny, cause Shadow somehow got worse. Besides already being overpowered, he outright went to kill Cosmo, and won't even explain the situation to the Heroes so maybe another solution can be made. Shadow's a lot more willing to talk in the games(till the alternate universe Boom), so.
It's pretty clear Shadow overall was always meant to be a very lethal force character, and it's consistent among his appearances. Eggman definitely still did that, considering how he's destroyed much of the land in earlier games, turning them into unlivable habitats and is an outright terrorist. ...Why is him holding a weapon suddenly jarring now?
It's a reaction thing. Most fans did not like the guns as a concept(regardless of how well they worked in the game), so stopped being used. It has nothing to do with an IC thing. Shadow also is only odd when he used a gun against a human since he's powerful enough to stomp them even without his memories(due to untamed natural strength), and it's only justified slightly by the Black Arms being blatantly stronger creatures. Why they suddenly are affected by human weaponry isn't explained either. It's part of the issue with trying to tell the story. As I said before, the guns make sense for Shadow to use IC. I never said it was well-balanced around the enemies(gameplay-wise, yes, story-wise, no).
Edited by Irene on Sep 19th 2022 at 8:04:49 AM
Shadow?Can't speak for IDW (though I wonder of gun content could be something they're careful about in general) but given how much Sonic games ran away from Adventure era elements after 06, its entirely possible that the semi-infamy of many concepts in Shadow's games were also seen has best not revisiting.
There seems to be two camps when it comes to "Shadow using guns"; some are either fine with it and think it was interesting or think it clashes too heavily with the Shadow's traditional Sonic design.
Uh....I'm gonna have to agree that it's a bit too clashing. I understand what they were going for, but it's a case of taking a concept too far in one direction to the point where it clashes with the tone.
I love Shadow using guns too, but mostly ironically. There's a good reason Shadow holding a gun is generally used as a point of mockery even in 2022. It was a misguided decision that contributed to Shadow's continued controversial status in the franchise.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I also don't see a point in trying to argue which side is more "right" about Shadow with guns, since it really does just come down to an opinion and what you prefer.
Like, if you like and don't mind Shadow with guns, that's fine. I don't, and a lot of other people didn't either and that's fine too.
The comics have kind of established that Sonic is in fact against lethal force, even if they aren't canon to the games. But since the author works directly for Sega and they have to review everything put into the book, I'd assume Sega agrees that Sonic doesn't kill.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 19th 2022 at 9:09:41 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I don't know about other continuities, but in the Archie comics, Mobians in general were averse to using firearms. Except Rotor apparently.
This apparently stems from an incident where, in the past, the crown prince of Acorn was killed by a gun.
I always disliked the notion of Shadow using guns, because Maria was shot to death in front of him, so I think that would have soured him on the notion of using them himself.
Edited by WillKeaton on Sep 19th 2022 at 7:50:21 AM
The Guns in Shadow don't even have any thematic relevance; they're entirely a gameplay feature only and have no bearing on Shadow's character at all. Which only reinforces that Sega didn't really put much thought into it beyond "kids like guns, put them in"
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 19th 2022 at 9:11:09 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Worth noting that Shadow couldn't entirely remember his past at the time. He actually doesn't use guns much in 06(just a bit with the vehicles, and drops them after the game, as noted above), after regaining his memories. If he fully remembered, he'd have a fair reason to avoid them(bar necessities, like defeating the Black Arms). As he's not against lethal force either way. But this is also why I said they did a poor job of explaining why he used them, as it's not touched upon at all. They're just there. They're not OOC in itself, but still not explained.
Also, that was my bad. I misunderstand the scene in Shadow where Sonic makes it clear he's not a fan of using guns(but wouldn't argue if others prefers to use them). I didn't know that about the comics.
Though it is worth noting he was okay with killing King Arthur in The Black Knight and he effectively did kill Erazor Djinn in Secret Rings. Though this is the only two games where it's a downright "non choice" factor to. Which does show he's willing to only if absolutely necessary.
But of course, "doesn't like" and "won't" are clearly two different things. And we can ignore competition with things like Olympics-related guns, since those aren't being used in a lethal way. I mean, if we even want to say they're canon to Sonic, heh.
Shadow?I do find it funny that Shadow having a gun is too much, but a kangaroo rat in a cowboy hat is A-OK to have a pistol. Its even funnier to me since I actually have that ridiculous stance.
I think Shadow is way more interesting using chaos powers than firearms. Relying on guns actually degrades one of the things that make Shadow appealing, in my opinion. Same with the vehicles. He has cool hoverboots, but you put him on a motorcycle? Do you not want to show off the cool hoverboots?
So in summary, bring back Nack/Fang.
Edited by Zeromaeus on Sep 19th 2022 at 9:58:26 AM
It partially made sense in Shadow, since it's kind of hard to access his Chaos Powers if he can't remember how to use them. But for the same reason, why is he able to use a gun easily? Probably cause it's just "pull trigger, derp". But he does remember how to use some Chaos powers(which he had few of anyway) during his game. It's not till 06 he learns more major abilities. Sonic Battle has minor uses... of which aren't really much different from Shadow, mainly that Chaos Blast and Chaos Burst are rather similar, and Chaos Control is still in both games(he just can teleport around fast as an air jump in one).
They didn't decide to expand upon it yet. They could've easily did that for his own game too, but they couldn't really use the memory plot as well(since he can barely remember how to use his base powers). Coincidentally, this is the game that also explains why he knows how to use his Chaos powers(due to Black Doom). Funnier part is they're not actually that useful in this game bar a few rare moments(like get to the end of the level for Chaos Control), and they only give you infinite ammo for other uses, like in boss fights. But, you know, game was outright based around the guns, which flowed well in terms of gameplay design.
I would love to see it fixed up to remove some of the clear bugs, improve the vehicle gameplay, fix a few story oddities(mentioned many pages back, a few paths don't work very well), remove most of the swearing(I can believe Shadow wouldn't mind, and it's kind of too memetic to change at this point. The whole Fourth Chaos Emerald even shows up in some ways in later games, like being the fourth mission which involves Shadow, etc.), build the levels so running fast doesn't constantly make you hit enemies(some levels of course moving fast is a bad idea anyway, but that's obvious level design when "defeat all enemies" exist anyway). And of course, have some of the remixed musical themes~ Both versions of All Hail Shadow are sweet, after all.
Shadow?I imagine Sonic is against lethal force just because Sega doesn't want their mascot to be a killer, even if a justified one.
Don't point out the Black Knight scene, he was anime slashing. Anime swords don't rip people's flesh, they just knock people down hard. It's why Lancelot, Gawain and Percival were still alive.
Shadow? "beepity boop, obliterating anything that's not your friend"
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

Which is the smarter option, using Silver from the games is dumb...he doesn't do anything.
You only have his debut gameplay and his boss fight in Generations.
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