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ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#66976: Sep 18th 2022 at 6:50:54 AM

Has a Sonic game had this much pre-release good will before?

Maybe Generations? I don't remember for sure that far back.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Sep 18th 2022 at 9:51:13 AM

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erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#66977: Sep 18th 2022 at 7:59:11 AM

Generations and definitely Mania. Bodes well.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#66978: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:17:53 AM

From what I hear, Frontiers is being well received by Japanese audiences. The first game sine SA 2 to be liked by Japanese audiences.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66979: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:30:01 AM

Sega haven trying to get Japanese fans into Sonic since the 90's.

Sonic Frontiers is pretty much tailor made to do that.

>Focusing on a simpler gameplay loop.
>A shonen/seinen level story as opposed to the Saturday morning cartoon stuff from the last decade.
>None of the popular Modern characters but have huge amounts of baggage are present and focusing on the Classic cast.

Its pretty easy to see why Japan likes this game but why the reception has been pretty mixed in America and Europe.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 18th 2022 at 11:30:30 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#66980: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:40:02 AM

[up]Mixed reception? Really?

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#66981: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:40:28 AM

I'd say it's mixed by the most vocal people.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66982: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:44:26 AM

That would still mean its mixed....

[up][up]Why is this a problem?

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 18th 2022 at 11:44:47 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#66983: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:49:03 AM

Your words felt inaccurate. As if you confused "mixed" with "not 100% positive".

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66984: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:51:39 AM

If anything, the reception feels more negative than positive.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#66985: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:55:05 AM

What exactly is it about Sonic that doesn't appeal to Japanese fans?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66986: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:55:54 AM

[up][up][up]That is literally what mixed is...are you really being this pedantic?

I didn't even say it was "controversial" or "negative" I said it was mixed...

[up]It depends on the game; the Classic games aren't that popular due to being a little too hard for them. The Adventure games are way more popular, due in part of the more character-driven, Shonen-esc narrative.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 18th 2022 at 11:57:45 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#66987: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:58:28 AM

[up]I mean, we don't say movies with 90% positive critic reviews on Rotten Tomatoes got a mixed reception.

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LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#66988: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:01:11 AM

[up][up][up][up] You sure about that? It feels like seeing the most vocal reactions would make it seem it looks negative yet as the Japanese award showed, it has won goodwill.

Edited by LoneCourier0 on Sep 18th 2022 at 6:02:03 PM

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66989: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:02:25 AM

[up][up]Is Rotten Tomatoes the end all determination of a movie's reception?

More to the point...Frontiers isn't out yet...So yea, I would say its a bit less presumptuous to say that its reception is mixed than to assume its 100% or negative.

EDIT: Ya know, no. I'm not doing this today. I'm not getting into a debate about semantics with this series. If you think I'm wrong and Frontiers has no negative impressions at all, be my guest I don't care anymore, have a good day.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 18th 2022 at 12:04:29 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Readersprite The Very Model of a Modern Intellectual from Hell, Florida, USA Since: Sep, 2021 Relationship Status: Desperate
The Very Model of a Modern Intellectual
#66990: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:08:04 AM

What exactly is it about Sonic that doesn't appeal to Japanese fans?

This question has been asked for a long time, and the somewhat unsatisfying answer always lands between "he was never meant to appeal to Japanese fans" and "he was designed for the West." His edginess, his cockiness, his color scheme, his hobbies, and everything else was designed to be marketable to 90s Western audiences. It even extends to his vernacular, which in Japanese versions still gets rendered at least partially in English. I wonder if it also might be the datedness of being a very 90s character design.

I like talking to friends about stories over food.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#66991: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:10:30 AM

Is Rotten Tomatoes the end all determination of a movie's reception?

For some snobs, yeah, kinda.

But I digress. I myself have been hearing nothing but great buzz from all the corners. And I'm personally psyched that they're bringing back Adventure-styled 3D action. grin

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#66992: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:14:02 AM

[up] Same here, hence why I don't think that comment from Pushover is that accurate.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66993: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:21:11 AM

Well, maybe when they first started showing gameplay. At that time, it was like 70-80% negative. Now, it feels closer to 40-50% negative, which I'd say is definitely mixed.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 18th 2022 at 9:21:30 AM

BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#66994: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:27:18 AM

Overall reception by non-Japanese fans feels like it averages out to cautiously optimistic, though with some variance depending on particular fandom. Casual fans definitely seem curious about the open world setting, Adventure era fans are fairly excited given the more serious tone, and your classic/modern fans seem skeptical until they experience it themselves or get an in depth review.

As far as Sonic struggling in Japan, part of his that its a legacy franchise with fame and nostalgia rooted in a relatively weak period for Sega in that region and that Sonic's design might potentially straddle the line too much between cute and cool. He's not adorable like a Kirby or as outright visually badass to some like a Goku, so the appeal is muted to some.

Edited by BorneAgain on Sep 18th 2022 at 12:31:31 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66995: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:33:22 AM

Sega haven trying to get Japanese fans into Sonic since the 90's.

Sonic Frontiers is pretty much tailor made to do that.

>Focusing on a simpler gameplay loop. >A shonen/seinen level story as opposed to the Saturday morning cartoon stuff from the last decade. >None of the popular Modern characters but have huge amounts of baggage are present and focusing on the Classic cast.

And even stuff like the much more anime inspired robot designs.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66996: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:37:23 AM

It is directly referencing Neon Genesis Evangelion of all things, right down to Sage being voiced by Rei's VA.

Sega have been wanting the Japanese audience for a very long time now, regardless if Sonic has always performed better in the West.

[up][up] This was one of the main reasons they redesigned him into his current design, as Naka wanted Sonic to be "cooler" and thus, the Modern designs lean much more into the Action Hero mold than the more rounder and cuter Classic design.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 18th 2022 at 12:38:24 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#66997: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:55:55 AM

[up] The Evangelion references in Sonic Frontiers are kinda funny when you realize the Sega Saturn appeared in the anime (admittedly when a certain character is at a severely low point in their state of mind, but still), there's tons of EVA merch from Sega, and Sega was one of the producers for The End of Evangelion. (No, seriously.)

And the whole bit about Sage being voiced in Japan by Rei makes me wonder if the English version will follow suit and have a Rei voicing Sage, like Amanda Winn-Lee, Brina Palencia, or Ryan Bartley. (I kinda doubt it, but whatever.)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 18th 2022 at 1:26:40 PM

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#66998: Sep 18th 2022 at 10:01:30 AM

Don't forget Brina Palencia, man.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#66999: Sep 18th 2022 at 10:07:57 AM

Look, I'm just happy Japan is interested for once. And to expand of Yakuzu's point, this game has none of the "popular characters" aka it doesn't have pandering to the fandom with meaningless extras just to keep them quiet like it happened with Forces or Colors DS. It's a straight up new experience for a new audience, and I'm all for it.

Edited by Tomodachi on Sep 18th 2022 at 10:10:39 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#67000: Sep 18th 2022 at 10:26:02 AM

I don't think Sonic's design is inherently more appealing to the West than to Japan. Yuji Naka has talked about how Sonic was made, and basically the idea behind Sonic was that they wanted to make a game that they could say was popular in America so they could advertise it in Japan. They wanted Sonic to be popular in America, but not for it's own sake. Their main goal was that they wanted to boost Mega Drive sales in Japan. The team at the time didn't know much about America and mostly went off of stereotypical knowledge. Sonic was less designed for America, and more designed to look American for Japan. That's why he does stuff like speak random English in Japan, it's seem hip and cool to Japanese kids.

The reasons Sonic isn't particularly popular in Japan are mostly the following:

  • The Mega Drive was pretty much doomed in Japan. Sonic 1, 2, and 3 were all high-selling MD games there, but that's relative to other MD games. The Mega Drive userbase was tiny compared to the Super Famicom (for various reasons), so Sonic was doomed to never have much potential reach.
  • Even though the Adventure games did well in Japan, sales started dropping and it seems the shake-up Sonic went through in the late 2000's also had Sega deciding it's wasn't worth it to try and push Sonic there anymore. So Sonic's advertising in Japan has been really bad since around Colors.
  • And finally, the classic games just don't have as good a reputation over there. They have a reputation of being hard and overly reliant on memorization.


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