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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66726: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:05:44 AM

Yea, but 06 is also when Sonic literally wasn't doing shit, and the one people complain about being the most boring unSonic like.

Is that second one towards me?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#66727: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:13:15 AM

Yeah, Sonic in 06 was boring. But, on the other hand, his character in Black Knight is so much more enjoyable than furry Bart Simpson and meta asshole to me.

And, yeah, not intended as a jab, but, Sonic as that character is mostly confined to the US, with the UK having a similar tangent. And, well, in terms of cartoons, Europe and Lat Am were oh so embracing anime (and the new Cartoon Network stuff at the end of the 90s) that Sonic cartoons were virtually unheard of.

The character of Sonic was "goes fast, battling giggling robots man", then Adventure happened.

And, again, early brat Bart Simpson is so throughly a period piece that fixating on it isn't that great. Ask Edward Furlong lol

BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#66728: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:16:04 AM

Even beyond the cartoons, the image of Sonic as the very confident dude with attitude (to contrast with the likes of Mario) was so pervasive in that classic era (especially in the US), that its still remained in cultural memory by sheer inertia. His characterization in the 2010-2019 games getting virtually no backlash from casual fans or various reviewers is a bit telling in just how much cocky snarkster is a take that many outside the hardcore fandom simply accept as, if not natural, than certainly not objectionable.

Edited by BorneAgain on Sep 10th 2022 at 1:21:58 PM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66729: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:22:23 AM

Its interesting when you look at the Movie's interpretation where Sonic is much less obnoxious and more agreeable overall. Ones who grew up on the more benign take on Sonic in the mid 2000's while others who prefer Sonic having more of an "edge" (so to speak) to him kind of dislike it.

Its kind of like the difference between Andrew Garfield!Spider-Man and Tom Holland!Spider-Man

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#66730: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:22:39 AM

I do think it's funny how meaty Shadow's story is in '06 compared to Sonic's story.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#66731: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:25:27 AM

Trying to have bland Sonic romance a princess was a bad take.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66732: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:29:16 AM

[up][up] That's what happens when his original creator was working on him.

That said, 06's development was so hectic, who knows what they had planned for Sonic that just didn't make it.

Why they thought a romance between him and Elise was the way to go is something I'll never understand... Its not even a bad idea inherently, but Sonic is so grossly...not Sonic in 06.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 10th 2022 at 1:29:45 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#66733: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:30:38 AM

And before anyone says that a human-on-Sonic romance was planned as early as Sonic 1 with Madonna, she seemed more Betty Boop-styled in comparison to Elise, so the romance probably would have been played for earnest absurdity like Roger and Jessica Rabbit compared to what we got.

Are explosions science?
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#66734: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:33:04 AM

[up]And even if they played it seriously, the cartoony art style would have made things less awkward.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#66735: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:34:25 AM

More like the other way around. Sonic wasn't all that interested compared to how much Elise was interested in him. Which was still a bad writing practice, anyway. But that's cause the whole "princess falls for the hero" is rather sexist in itself when it's that shallow.

It didn't help that Elise barely knows much of anything about what true love is, etc, due to not being out much in the world, and so on. Even worse was her getting kidnapped multiple times in the game, oy. I wasn't bothered by the concept of the ship alone, since it didn't make a difference to me(they're both sapient, which is all that matters). And I liked how Amy was way more mature, accepting the kiss of life as a thing and just going with it because Sonic being alive was always more important than her jealousy(which was massively toned down, thank god).

So I do like some of the writing overall, and how it improved Amy muchly. It's the first time after she got development in Adventure that she truly interacted with Sonic-related stuff is a much more mature manner. She was also great in Shadow, not obsessing over Sonic. Unleashed went with the same direction that Shadow and 06 started, too. I don't remember how she was like in some of the spin-offs(Riders, etc.) other than Battle(which she was worse than Heroes, since at least Heroes showed some of her more loyal side to her friends, not just her obsession), and I forgot how she was like in Chronicles.

Otherwise, I found her gameplay really fun as going invisible was a neat change of pace and a good callback that she dabbled in magic. Too bad it was removed from the timeline, which means her using similar magic is vastly unlikely(and that's even ignoring that referencing the game outside of a stage or boss is very unlikely).

Shadow?
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66736: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:34:42 AM

I know people love to punch down towards Sonic, but it does kind of deserve when the developers do shit like that with no rhyme or reason for how it would look towards international audiences.

[up] No no, Sonic was definitely acting like an awkward teenaged Anime boy around Elise whenever she got really emotional with him. So it definitely felt like it was supposed to be mutual.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 10th 2022 at 1:36:33 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#66737: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:35:50 AM

Honestly after multiple times of watching Sonic 03 content, playthroughs and reviews, you get it, I only see the romance as a one-sided affair on Elise's part.

But despite the whole bestiality thing, I...don't think it's that bad? Or at least it had potential.

Sonic's whole deal has always been about freedom and living life to the fullest. Well what is Elise's situation? Being trapped in her duty, unable to be anyone but a princess due to the circumstances of the Solaris Project forcing her to grow up early.

There's a couple of cutscenes in Sonic's story where he reaches out to her as a friend and gives her advice on how to live life that definitely FEELS right for Sonic to be saying.

Sonic becomes the first person in Elise's life to cut through the veil of her royalty and see her as a person, and while you can argue her getting kidnapped multiple times is annoying from a narrative standpoint, in terms of building her feelings for Sonic I think it works. Because despite constantly having to come to her rescue, Sonic never gives up trying, and this is reflected in Sonic's ending where Elise confidently repeats Sonic's earlier advice to him, showing how much he's helped her.

Basically the framework is there for something good, but Sonic needed to show a little more of his usual emotion outside of the CGI cutscenes and maybe one less kidnapping would have helped.

I wouldn't even remove the kiss, crazy as that sounds, because again, it's the capstone on Elise's feelings towards Sonic.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66738: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:39:22 AM

If you were going to give Sonic a Princess like love interest, instead of being all doe-eyed for them, they should challenge Sonic's way of doing thing, probably not really tolerating his flippant attitude but slowly lightens up as Sonic's free spirit nature gets to her. Someone who can meet Sonic in the middle.

Too bad there isn't a character like at all in Sonic, nope. No siree.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#66739: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:42:51 AM

It wasn't actually mutual. You can choose to make it with an event, but he treated her like a friend the entire time, while being a silly person anyway cause he likes to taunt others and such.

He just wasn't the main hero of the story to begin with, which is why his story is so weird. He seemed fine to me otherwise. Just had no direction to go with beyond rescuing Elise till the last story.

Shadow?
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#66740: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:46:32 AM

Funny animals being equated with bestiality is weird. Never heard it applied to Roger Rabbit.

Sonic as "first friend of a kid who's been shoved into responsibility after trauma" would have worked far better imo.

Goros Since: Nov, 2021
#66741: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:50:42 AM

https://twitter.com/IanFlynnBKC/status/1568095757537787904

Anyone interested in analyzing the lyrics? Or theorizing? I don't expect something earth-shattering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3x64z7Rw60

Titans are called Guardians, but that was probably alredy known.

Each island has multiple songs that change with progression.

Playable Demo this September at the TGS (Tokyo Game Show) from 15 to 18.

More screenshots, Volcano island? Jungle Island? Bridge between islands?

And what's this about Sonic and Shadow?

Edit: And Elise too?

Edited by Goros on Sep 10th 2022 at 10:53:28 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#66742: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:54:03 AM

So...

Sonic is more interesting in Black Knight than he is in Nex Gen...

Might be because he actually got a story that does something with that characterization.

Also Elise = Blaze.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66743: Sep 10th 2022 at 10:58:43 AM

@Irene: well either way, it was weird and a lot of people saw it as mutual anyway.

Leaning on the romance was a mistake on their part.

@Erio: Roger Rabbit has enough self awareness to point out how weird it is, that's part of the premise.

There's no self awareness in 06, you're just supposed to accept everything that happens as it is. Its the same reason Kingdom Hearts tends to be very divisive.

Because it turns mixing up realistic anime characters with western cartoon characters creates a bit of dissonance.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 10th 2022 at 2:01:40 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#66744: Sep 10th 2022 at 11:14:49 AM

Oh, of course, but still, bestiality is not something that really applies to funny animals. This franchise doesn't even do Furry Reminder.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#66745: Sep 10th 2022 at 11:15:01 AM

Eh.

Anyway, as said above, calling it Bestiality is just plain incorrect. That would mean Sonic isn't a sapient creature, like an actual animal, which is blatantly not the case. They're both clearly sapient creatures.

I wasn't bothered anyway because of that factor alone. The writing was still bad on Elise's part, though, based upon what I said above. Only thing I liked is how it showed that Amy has massively matured, a characterization that mostly stuck with her.

Shadow?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#66746: Sep 10th 2022 at 11:20:37 AM

It was gone immediately after...

Her subdued personality only existed since Sonic Lost World...

Edited by randomness4 on Sep 10th 2022 at 2:21:06 PM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66747: Sep 10th 2022 at 11:36:18 AM

That and Amy barely matters in 06 anyway. I mean, I'm glad you liked her? I just...don't see what's so incredible about her in 06 given how little she factors into the plot.

I literally forgot what they even talked about until you reminded me, and it's just...girl talk I guess?

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 10th 2022 at 2:38:09 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#66748: Sep 10th 2022 at 11:42:35 AM

She's very much subdued in Unleashed. Like, she's nice and simple and respective, not unlike Shadow's game. Basically, those three games at least did a great job at making her... a good character.

Yeah, she was minor, but they fixed her characterization, which is my point. Blaze was the only partner to be slightly less minor, due to some of the story involving her directly(and then suddenly it didn't matter).

Shadow?
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66749: Sep 10th 2022 at 1:51:53 PM

Id say she's inoffensive, but given how divisive she was, I guess that would be an upgrade.

I kind of miss her spunk tbh because it made her stand out, even if it rubbed some the wrong way. Nowadays, Amy just kind of...exists.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#66750: Sep 10th 2022 at 7:47:19 PM

The way I see it, 06's narrative is deliberately intended to make Sonic's attraction to Elise ambiguous on purpose, so as to allow you, the player, to interpret Sonic's romantic inclinations, supported by that one test of love.

Sonic never reciprocates Elise's feelings, but he also never rejects them.

I like that idea, though of course the execution leaves a lot to be desired.


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